PSNI Raid Sinn Féin Offices At Stormont

By the Irish American Information Service

Police in Northern Ireland have made a number of arrests and raided Sinn Féin 's Stormont offices outside Belfast. The raids started at about 0500 GMT this morning and the operation is continuing.

The Police Service of Northern Ireland said they were investigating "the activities of republican terrorists in Belfast." They said they had searched a number of premises in the north and west of the city and seized a number of items.

The police added they were "preparing to search the office of a specific individual at Stormont."

Sinn Féin said the police searched their party offices at Stormont, and arrested a senior party official, their head of administration Denis Donaldson, at his home. A party spokesman said that homes of community activists in West Belfast had also been raided.

The Sinn Féin spokesman said documents related to policing had been seized. Party president, Gerry Adams, said he had complained to the British Government about the searches. He accused the police service of being "anti-peace process, anti-Sinn Féin and anti-democratic."

Oct. 4, 2002

Sinn Féin Outraged Over PSNI Raid

Sinn Féin has reacted angrily to this morning's police raid on its offices at Stormont Buildings. Bairbre de Brun of Sinn Féin called on Northern Secretary of State John Reid to say whether he had a part in this morning's raid.

De Brun, a minister in the power sharing executive, said: "One of the things we are very anxious to learn at this point is whether John Reid had a part in this and if he signed this warrant or authorised it, it is something he needs to explain." De Brun said the search was a political attack on a political party.

"It is absolutely outrageous and it is clearly part of a political picture of intervention by the police service of Northern Ireland. It is stemming from the time in the spring when David Trimble indicated he could foresee the possibility of bringing an end to the political institutions."

"It is clearly part of a campaign of media leaks and media briefings by people like assistant chief constable Alan McQuillan to attack the political process. It is part of an anti-Sinn Féin , anti-peace process agenda. We have protested to the British Government in the strongest possible terms," she said.

At least four people have been arrested and documents were seized when police raided the offices and homes this morning. The head of Sinn Féin 's administration team at Stormont, Denis Donaldson, was one of those taken in for questioning.

A party spokesman said up to five homes of Sinn Féin members and community activists in west Belfast were raided. Up to 200 police officers were involved in the operation. A police spokeswoman said: "Police are investigating activities of republicans terrorists in Belfast."

Sources in Belfast have claimed that the raid was to establish if an employee of the Northern Ireland office was passing on information of a sensitive nature to republicans. 

Among those detained was a former junior employee of the Northern Ireland Office. The operation was ordered by Northern Ireland`s chief constable Hugh Orde

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams said he had complained to the British Government about the searches. He accused the police service of being "anti-peace process, anti-Sinn Féin and anti-democratic."

Speaking at Stormont, Sinn Féin 's Gerry Kelly condemned the raids on his party's offices. He said: "It's about blackening Sinn Féin to let David Trimble off the hook - it is politically unbelievable."

Speaking in Dublin, Sinn Féin 's Martin McGuinness said that the operation was a political operation by the PSNI.

Oct. 4, 2002

Securocrats Are Anti-Agreement - Kelly

Ulster Unionist leader David Trimble has urged the British Government 'to act' following the arrests of republicans this morning and the raiding of Sinn Féin 's offices in Stormont Buildings this morning. Trimble said it would have "grave implications" for the future of the power-sharing government at Stormont.
 

He said he suspected IRA intelligence was "directed at the upper echelons of the government, having penetrated the Northern Ireland Office".

He added: "This is on a par with the activities we believe republicans have been engaged in for some time. We have long suspected that this sort of activity is going on."

He said that was part of the reason why he gave Sinn Féin the Jan. 18 deadline for proving to his party that the republican movement was committed to peace, or his ministers would quit the executive.

However, Sinn Féin MLA for North Belfast Gerry Kelly speaking this evening following todayís comments made by David Trimble has said: "The UUP is an anti-Agreement party. David Trimble outlined his strategy at the UUP AGM in March. He wanted to collapse the political institutions and point the finger of blame at republicans. At last month's UUC meeting, Mr. Trimble unveiled his wreckers' charter to achieve this."

"Dovetailing with this anti-Agreement strategy is the campaign being waged by the securocrats. They have sought to demonise republicans through a series of very public interventions. Assistant Chief Constable Alan McQuillan was central to this. He used off-the-record briefings and leaks. Others in the British securocrat system planted bogus stories in will elements of the media."

Kelly continued: "The challenge for the two governments continues, with more urgency now, to be the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. They have to minimise the effects of the UUP and presumably the DUP withdrawal from the institutions. The inclination of Dr. Reid may be to play this process as slowly as he can."

"He may continue to be mesmerised by the need to keep Mr. Trimble in a leadership position. That is a matter for him. But he cannot use or abuse peoples rights or entitlements as part of this. He cannot continue to pander to unionismís inability to deliver on its commitments or to use this as an excuse for his government not fulfilling its responsibilities."

Kelly said there was "an onus" on the Irish government in respect of this. "They have a joint and co-equal responsibility with the British government, for the implementation of the Good Friday Agreement. The Good Friday Agreement requires urgent and committed political focus from Dublin as well as London," he said.

This afternoon, about 60 people held a protest at the headquarters of the Policing Board in Belfast against the raid at Sinn Féin 's Stormont office. Commenting on this morning's raids, Sinn Féin 's Conor Murphy MLA said: "This is a further politically inspired intervention by the PSNI as part of their wider anti-Sinn Féin and anti-Irish republican agenda. This is part of the campaign which began in the spring after David Trimble outlined the possibility that he would collapse the political institutions."

"Since then there has been a series of briefings, leaks and bogus statements planted in the media by senior PSNI figures like Alan McQuillan and other securocrats. The arrest of Denis Donaldson represents an upping of the ante in this campaign. We have protested in the strongest possible terms to the British government through the office of the party President Gerry Adams. These raids are clearly part of the PSNIís anti peace process, anti democracy and anti Sinn Féin agenda," said Murphy.

The leader of the Sinn Féin group in the Dail, Caoimhghin Ó Caolain TD, has described as "outrageous" the PSNI/RUC raid on the Sinn Féin offices in Stormont and the homes of Sinn Féin members.

Deputy Ó Caolain said: "This is an outrageous attack on a political party instigated by those within the PSNI/RUC who are most bitterly opposed to real change in policing and to the entire Agreement. Those arrested were involved in formulating our party's detailed analysis and policy on the policing issue. This raid is clearly part of the current propaganda effort to target Sinn Féin in pursuance of the anti-Agreement agenda of the Ulster Unionist Party."

"I am calling on the Taoiseach and Minister for Foreign Affairs to protest to the British government in the
strongest possible terms," said Ó Caolain

Oct . 5, 2002

Protests Mounted Against PSNI's Stormont Raid

Protests were mounted outside a number of Northern Ireland police stations this afternoon as four people continue to be questioned after yesterday's police raids on Belfast locations including Sinn Féin 's Stormont offices at Government Buildings.

The head of administration at Sinn Féin 's Stormont office Denis Donaldson, is among those being held about the alleged breach of the Northern Ireland Office (NIO). A former employee at the NIO is being questioned with having leaked documents.

Several protesters outside Andersonstown Police Station this afternoon carried placards denouncing the Police Service of Northern Ireland. One described the PSNI as "Trimble's storm troopers". Another claimed the "RUC/PSNI" were "attacking democracy". The protesters were joined by veteran republican Jo Cahill. Car horns sounded as drivers passed the picket.

Protests were also staged in Belfast's Antrim Road Police Station and in Derry.

Sinn Féin minister Bairbre de Brun insisted the current power-sharing arrangements at Stormont were "the only way forward" for Northern Ireland's parties.

She said: "We are part of the peace process ... We have played our part in that fully and totally. We have had constant attempts by people to justify a pulling out and a wrecking of this forward movement, the movement for change, and I don't think anybody realistically wants to see that happen."

She said major questions were now being asked of British Prime Minister Tony Blair's government over whether it was acquiescing in a bid by elements in the security services to bring down the institution.

She accused the new police service of orchestrating "a media-orientated event". "What we saw yesterday was an organized, politicized media oriented event," the West Belfast MLA argued.

"You were supposed to film, and you did film, mounds of jeeps and dozens of PSNI officers running into the Stormont Assembly building and I know from people on the inside that they weren't doing anything when they got there. When we tried to get you in there to show you that, they pulled out."

Irish premier Bertie Ahern described the raids at Stormont as "very serious." Speaking this afternoon, Ahern said he wanted to speak to Sinn Féin about the issue before he met with the Prime Minister Blair next week.
.

Oct. 7, 2002

Orde Apologizes Over Sinn Féin Offices Raid

The Police Service of Northern Ireland Chief Constable, Hugh Orde, has apologized for the way officers raided Sinn Féin offices at Parliament Buildings, Belfast on Friday.

Up to 200 uniformed officers and two plain-clothes detectives arrived at Sinn Féin's offices at Stormont as part of a series of searches. A Windows 98 disc and a back-up disc was siezed in the raid which took place in front of media gathered outside Government Buildings.

But as he arrived for talks with Northern Ireland Secretary John Reid on the emergency which has threatened to bring down Northern Ireland's power-sharing government, the Chief Constable said he was not happy.

He said: "I regret the way it was done. You can take that as a general apology." Orde accepted there had been an "error of judgment" in how police handled the planned raids. 

The Taoiseach's former adviser on Northern Ireland today said the police raid had yet to be fully justified.

Se. Martin Mansergh said it was extraordinary a party's offices could be raided in such a manner. "I think they are very serious developments and as [Foreign Minister] Brian Cowen has said, we need to keep an open mind, and indeed I think we need to be wide awake," Mansergh said.

"It is an extraordinary thing in any democracy for the parliamentary offices of a political party to be heavily raided by a police force. I mean this is the sort of thing you associate more with . . . Turkey, President Mugabe . . . countries that are sort of semi-democratic."

"If, suppose, the Fine Gael party had some sort of leaked government documents and there were a Garda raid on Fine Gael headquarters and tons of loads of documents were taken away, there would be a huge furor," Mr Mansergh said.

He also questioned the timing of the raids. "If some of this dates back a year, why the particular timing? I'm not at all sure for example the Irish Government was consulted about this or have been given any detailed information about what precisely is going on."

Sinn Féin's policing spokesman Mr Gerry Kelly described the Chief Constable's comments as "weasel words." Kelly said the search of his party's office was "bogus."

"Its aim was to veil a direct political intervention by the PSNI. It proved to be a thin and wholly transparent veil. It was political theatre that has rebounded. Hugh Orde's weasel words about the manner in which this was done cuts no ice. The PSNI, like the RUC, is operating to a unionist agenda."

Two people appeared in court last night charged with having documents likely to be of use to terrorists planning or carrying out acts of violence.

Armed police stood inside and outside the courtroom as Denis Donaldson, 52, Sinn Féin's chief administrator at Stormont, appeared in the dock. Fiona Farrelly, 46, of Rosgoill Park in Belfast, who was charged with possession of a laptop computer and personal details of prison officers said to be useful to terrorists. Both defendants were remanded in custody to appear back in court by videolink next Friday, Oct. 11.

Martin McGuinness, the Sinn Féin Mid-Ulster MP, yesterday said those charged were innocent and that the IRA was still working for peace.

"Allegations have been flying right, left and center," he said. "I am entirely convinced that Denis Donaldson is absolutely innocent of any charge. What we are seeing is John Reid effectively taking up the demands of the unionist political leadership who have already stated very clearly they are opposed to the Good Friday agreement. Is the government now asking republicans to jump through more hoops?"

Irish government officials will quiz their British counterparts this week about the peculiar circumstances of last Friday's raid on Sinn Féin's Assembly offices. Sources say the timing of the raid is seen as suspicious and there are concerns it was politically motivated.
 

It is expected that Ulster Unionist leader David Trimble will use the raids as a pretest for demanding a suspension of the North's power-sharing institutions. Sources within his Ulster Unionist Party predicted at the weekend that the British government would "suspend and review" the Assembly later this week, which would stave off elections.

Irish premier Bertie Ahern is due to meet British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Wednesday. The Irish government is hostile to a suspension of the institutions, elements of which are now part of the Irish Constitution.

Ahern is expected to reject any proposal that does not continue the work of the Good Friday Agreement.

Irish government sources said the man suspected of photocopying sensitive Northern Ireland Office documents for republicans stopped working at Stormont more than six months ago. They also noted with concern that the raid coincided with the first day of the trial of the three Irish republicans in Colombia accused of assisting FARC guerrillas.

In a statement, Ireland's Minister for Foreign Affairs Brian Cowen insisted there should be "no rush to judgement... This is clearly a very sensitive time in the peace process. Interface violence, paramilitary activity and sectarianism are ongoing challenges. It is vitally important that all of the parties continue to strive to sustain and enhance the peace and progress that the people of Northern Ireland have achieved."

Sinn Féin president Mr Gerry Adams is discussing the crisis with the Ahern in Dublin this evening. Speaking on the way into that meeting Mr Adams said the crisis in the peace process "must be sorted out".

Ahern earlier renewed his call to the various political leaders in the North to maintain calm in the wake of the latest developments. While accepting the potential threat to the peace process posed by the weekend's events, Ahern urged caution and reflection by all parties.

"It is not a time to be judgemental," he said. "It's a time for us to be fairly clear-sighted, not just about the short term but about the longer term and see how we can manage this."

Meanwhile, two anti-Agreement Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) ministers are to resign from the Northern Executive this week following Friday's police raids.

Earlier, the party's leader Dr Ian Paisley called for a mass Unionist walkout from the Executive in the wake of the allegations of IRA intelligence gathering at Stormont.

The party has tabled a motion to exclude Sinn Féin Ministers from the Executive which will be debated in the Assembly tomorrow.

Oct. 7, 2002

Sinn Féin Not Involved, Says Adams

Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams has assured the Irish premier Bertie Ahern that his party was not involved in an intelligence-gathering operation at Government Buildings at Stormont.

Speaking after meeting Ahern in Dublin, Adams said republicans would have to be 'very stupid' to be involved in such an operation when they were trying to keep the institutions up and running.

He said: "If there is a crisis, in any crisis, whether it's a contrived crisis or a real crisis, then it goes over to the people to decide what the outcome should be, and there shouldn't be any sort of a structure which has some sort of super referee from London coming in to take away from the natives whatever little political structure that they have bestowed on us."

"If I was a Unionist I would have grave concerns but it is still my view that there is a solid block of Unionists there that want this process to work."

He said that as one of the architects of the agreement Ahern knew the importance of keeping the institutions and minimising any difficulties that could be created by the Unionists' position in the time ahead.

Adams has described the situation as political theatre designed to tie Sinn Féin to the murky world of British securocratism.

He said it was a conspiracy hatched by Unionists to allow them to blame his party for the collapse of the Executive. "The situation is business as usual for us," he said. "Let's not get carried away with all this".

Ahern earlier renewed his call to the various political leaders in the North to maintain calm in the wake of the latest developments.

While accepting the potential threat to the peace process posed by the weekend's events, Ahern urged caution and reflection by all parties.

"It is not a time to be judgemental," he said. "It's a time for us to be fairly clear-sighted, not just about the short term but about the longer term and see how we can manage this."
 

Broacast outlets across Ireland and Northern Ireland covered the PSNI raids on the Sein Féin offices at Stromont on Oct. 4. The following transcripts of news reports and commentary are provided by the Northern Ireland Information Service.
 
 

Mark Simpson - Sinn Féin Raid - BBC News 24

BROADCASTER

A number of people have been arrested, and buildings in the North and the West of the city have been searched. Sinn Féin says police have searched their party offices in Stormont. The Police Service says it's preparing to search the office of a specific individual.

MARK SIMPSON

We don't know exactly what the police are looking for, but I can tell you Sinn Féin are very angry indeed. A statement from Gerry Adams in the last few minutes, saying he's complained to the British Government, possibly gone to Downing Street, telephoned Downing Street this morning, and complained. And he's accused the Police Service here in Northern Ireland of having an anti-peace process, an anti-democracy, and anti-Sinn Féin agenda.

Tracy Magee - Sinn Féin Raid - UTV Live

LINDA BRIENS

At least one person has been arrested and documents seized as police raided Sinn Féin 's offices at Stormont this morning.

TRACY MAGEE

Sinn Féin says the raid started around 5 o'clock this morning. It's understood the search is centred on one of the party's 18 offices in Stormont. A PSNI spokeswoman said police are investigating the activities of republican terrorists in Belfast. 

A number of people have been arrested and items seized. Searches have taken place in North and West Belfast, as well as at Stormont. However, security sources have insisted the searches have nothing to do with the investigation into the Castlereagh break-in, which police have blamed on the IRA. 

At Parliament Buildings, the party's Administration Chief, Denis Donaldson, was arrested. He's currently being questioned by police. Sinn Féin say documents on policing, human rights and justice issues were taken. Party spokesman, Conor Murphy, has described the search as a politically inspired intervention by the PSNI.

Eamon Mallie - Sinn Féin Raid - DTR 11 O'clock

JILL BROWN

Police have raided Sinn Féin offices at Stormont. The move followed a series of raids on homes across North and West Belfast during which a leading party official was detained. Sinn Féin say paperwork relating to the party's position on policing is among items seized by police.

EAMON MALLIE

Well, sometime around 5 o'clock this morning, a series of raids took place on houses in North and West Belfast. We understand there to be 4 or 5 people arrested. Now Sinn Féin are saying some of these people are Sinn Féin personnel and some are community activists. Among those arrested was Denis Donaldson, Denis Donaldson is the chief administrator for Sinn Féin in Parliament Buildings. 

A search of the chief administrator's office, the main Sinn Féin office in Parliament Buildings then took place. Sinn Féin are alleging that initially there was no warrant for that search, a warrant they say eventually arrived. I saw about 12 or 13 or 14 police officers leaving the building. Now Sinn Féin are alleging that they only left the building when the media arrived, when the media gained access to the Sinn Féin office on the upper floor here in Parliament Buildings.

Peter Taggart - CNN

PETER TAGGART

They said that this is absolutely incredible, raiding their offices at the Parliament Buildings in Belfast, is completely unacceptable and they obviously are claiming at this stage, there is nothing to this, that this man is completely innocent.

REPORTER

What kind of information have the police released in terms of reasoning for this raid?

PETER TAGGART

The police in Northern Ireland have released very little information. In fact, up until a few minutes ago they said absolutely nothing. All they're saying is that this is part of a major operation against republican terrorists in Belfast. They have admitted that, arrests have been made, raids have been carried out, and what they say, the offices of a particular individual, as they put it, has been searched at Stormont.
REPORTER

So basically, lay it out for us Peter, why is this so significant, why is it so important?

PETER TAGGART

This is absolutely vital, it's critical at the moment. The Northern Ireland peace process is in chaos. The Ulster Unionists, the Protestants are threatening to withdraw from Government with Sinn Féin . The Unionists say that if Sinn Féin haven't proved it's committed to peace by the end of this year, that the Parliament, the Government, the power-sharing Government in Belfast is over. 

This is another devastating blow, and coming on a day when three suspected IRA members begin their trial. More revelations there, even this, this action today, this could be the end of the Parliament in Belfast.

Gary Honeyford - Sinn Féin Raid - Sky News - 11.30 News -

GARY HONEYFORD

Sinn Féin are obviously furious at the Police Service of Northern Ireland for carrying out this raid. One of their MLAs, Gerry Kelly, accused them of guilt by accusation.

GERRY KELLY

This is a highly political raid. There have been a series of raids, some of the people I know personally, they are involved with us on the policing issue, in terms of advice on human rights, in terms of advice on equality. And this is, in the wake, in the wake, of David Trimble talking about pulling down the Institutions, and now we have the PSNI acting very politically.

GARY HONEYFORD

Well, the reasons for these raids is as yet unclear. We don't know what the core of this investigation is, but certainly in a political sense, it will play out throughout the coming weeks, in terms of how David Trimble, the Ulster Unionist leader, responds to this, as well as Sinn Féin .

Kevin Connolly - Sinn Féin Raid - News 24

KEVIN CONNOLLY

One of those arrested, we understand, is of a senior Sinn Féin official, not an elected representative, but somebody who is important in the party's administrative system, and of course, most controversially of all, most significantly from a political point of view, Sinn Féin offices inside the Northern Ireland Assembly building at Stormont have been searched, documents have been taken away from there, so that gives this extraordinarily high profile security operation, a very important political twist.

Gerry Kelly - Sinn Féin Raid - Sky News

GERRY KELLY

As you've seen, or as you saw, while coming up, the PSNI left the building. I assume because they knew that you were coming. They wanted to get out before the press seen exactly what they were at. 

So let me repeat, this is a highly political raid, there have been a series of raids, some of the people I know personally, they're involved with us on the policing issue, in terms of advice on human rights, in terms of advice on equality. Tthis is in the wake, in the wake of David Trimble talking about pulling down the institutions and now we have the PSNI acting very politically to support that. Let me make a further point, which I've already made. 

If John Reid, and it seems like he did, signed a warrant for this to happen, then he is also complicit in taking a political move against Sinn Féin , against people who are absolutely peace process orientated, people who have defended the Good Friday Agreement, while others who have been attacking the Good Friday Agreement and who have been attacking Catholics over the last two years are getting off scot free/

That includes the drugs houses that they're using, you don't see PSNI raids going into clear out either the loyalist attacks on Catholics and those people involved in it, or indeed the drugs that they're involved in. 

It is a disgrace, it is an attack on democracy, it is an attack on the vote for Sinn Féin , and all those tens of thousands of people who vote for us.

MEDIA

Any idea what's been taken from the office?

GERRY KELLY

I am told that some discs have been taken.

MEDIA

Sorry, if I can get that clear from Š

GERRY KELLY

Well, I've been told, I've been told, I haven't got a full report, that they took simply two discs, that's what I'm being told. They refused, they came here without a warrant, I am also told, and then refused the administration staff to come in here, and kept them out of here until they got, I assume went away and got a warrant. This is the most highly political act, and worse than that, it's Anti-Agreement in its essence, and they're doing nothing, nothing about those elements, Anti-Agreement elements who are in fact out there killing people. It is a ridiculous situation.
 

Jeffrey Donaldson - Former Messenger - Sky News

REPORTER

A former messenger, who worked for the Government's main offices in Belfast, was arrested today, as part of a major police investigation into the IRA. Documents were seized and a number of men were detained in a series of searches throughout the North and West of the city. Denis Donaldson, the head of the administration team at Parliament Buildings, is also being held by police. 

Party members have accused the police of acting politically. Well the Ulster Unionist MP Jeffrey Donaldson is live for us at Stormont at the moment. Your political opponents, Mr. Donaldson, have said this is unfair political interference. What do you say?

JEFFREY DONALDSON

I say that that's rubbish, I think that what happened here this morning is a defining moment in the political process, because we've had a political party here, Sinn Féin , at Stormont whose offices have been raided because the police believe that they've been involved in intelligence gathering, and we have the absurdity of a party in Government in Northern Ireland, who are targeting other people, who are gathering information for a terrorist organisation. And I think today marks the final nail in the coffin of Sinn Féin 's participation in the Government of Northern Ireland.

REPORTER

You would put it as strongly as that would you, and think it's time for the Assembly to be dissolved?

JEFFREY DONALDSON

Well, I don't think it's time for the Assembly to be dissolved, I think it's time for Sinn Féin to be kicked out of the Government. They're not fit to be in Government, when you have this kind of thing going on, I mean, where else in the United Kingdom would you have a situation where a political party, and senior officials in that party, are arrested, their offices are raided because of intelligence gathering for a terrorist organisation, and they remain in Government, it's simply, it's incompatible with the democratic process, and it's got to end. I want to see the Assembly continuing, but not Sinn Féin in our Government.

REPORTER

But the Assembly can't continue without Sinn Féin , can it?

JEFFREY DONALDSON

Well, the Assembly can continue. What we're talking about is the power-sharing Executive which is the Government wing, or the Government arm of the political institutions here, and there is no reason why we can't remove one party from that Executive, and continue with the Executive, and the Assembly will remain unaffected.

Secretary Of State - Sinn Féin Raid - ITV News Bulletin

BROADCASTER

Police looking for information on the IRA have raided Sinn Féin offices at the Northern Ireland Assembly building at Stormont. Sinn Féin Assembly members are furious. The raid is one of a series around Belfast involving 200 officers. One man, a former Government employee, has been arrested, and documents seized.

DAN RIVERS

This was an unprecedented raid, the equivalent of police marching into the House of Commons. Some 200 officers from the Police Service of Northern Ireland were involved, searching Stormont as part of an investigation into republican terrorism. Sinn Féin 's offices were targeted, where the police seized documents and computer disks. One former Government messenger was also detained during other raids in West Belfast. This morning the Northern Ireland Secretary gave this blunt warning.

REID

The police will pursue this wherever it goes. And if people are involved in acts of terrorism, or in any way associated with assisting acts of terrorism, no-one should be in any doubt that there will be no camouflage thrown over this, there will be no cover-up. The police will follow wherever the evidence leads, whoever is involved.

DAN RIVERS

Some loyalist politicians have welcomed the investigation, saying it's further evidence that Sinn Féin isn't committed exclusively to peace. But republican Assembly members have accused the police of political intervention, claiming it highlights their wider, anti-Sinn Féin , anti-Irish agenda. 

Security sources have confirmed the raid is linked to IRA intelligence gathering. There are fears that the IRA may have obtained highly sensitive Ministerial documents kept at Stormont. Police are now understood to be questioning the former messenger to see just how much access he had when her worked in Northern Ireland's corridors of power.
 

Sinn Féin Raid - CNN

REPORTER

Reports say they took away documents. They also say that they took away some computer discs as well, they didn't say what sort of discs they were. But they've taken those way, they've made a number of arrests, throughout the city. Sinn Féin are saying they know that 4 people have been arrested, they say two of them are members of Sinn Féin , the most senior member Denis Donaldson, was the head of administration at the those Government offices. 

Now what Sinn Féin are saying at this stage is that all those documents that they know have been taken are relating to policing issues, issues of justice, and human rights issues. At this stage Sinn Féin are deeply angered by what has happened, this story is very much developing at this time.

INTERVIEWER

Obviously we're going to get more details throughout the day, as to what is actually going on here. Sinn Féin has been distancing itself very much from the IRA. Is this raid now a blow to that, putting them very much more closely allied with the IRA?

REPORTER

Sinn Féin has always distanced itself from the IRA, the claims within the unionist community, the Protestant community mostly in Northern Ireland is that Sinn Féin and IRA are one and the same organisation. Indeed the main unionist party led by David Trimble, the Ulster Unionist Party has made a deadline in January to see a speeding up of what they call the process by which the politicisation, the political movement of Sinn Féin , separates itself from its historical roots, that's the way that they see it, it is very much an issue. 

But it is too early at this stage to say what's in those documents, the police have not said that these documents relate or in any way perhaps tie Sinn Féin to the IRA at this stage, that would be speculation, but it is a major issue, this is, at a very critical junction, they go into those offices of Sinn Féin , unprecedented, it is a very delicate political situation in Northern Ireland, and this will really create a lot of political waves at this time.

INTERVIEWER

Also, is it key that they raided the offices at Stormont, rather than the Party headquarters, because they did actually raid a number of buildings, didn't they?

REPORTER

A number of buildings. The fact that they went to look for documents in Stormont, in the Government offices, it is unprecedented. Now people who move through the offices of Stormont have told me, that they don't think any organisation keeps sensitive documents there, they say that would be ridiculous, that doors are open, the corridors, people are free to wander up and down the corridors. 

Perhaps it's significant that the police took away some computer discs, but again too early to say what was contained within those documents. But observers say it would be unlikely that they were very sensitive documents of the nature perhaps, one might speculate, that might link Sinn Féin to the IRA, that such documents would be kept at Stormont at the Government offices, it seems very unlikely at this stage.

INTERVIEWER

Who would be behind this sort of investigation, because it would have to come from an extremely high level?

REPORTER

The Police Service of Northern Ireland who are responsible for the policing in Northern Ireland, and they would make this decision. However, it's very likely knowing that this would be a contentious issue, that it would have political ramifications, the decision was at least done with the knowledge of some of the senior politicians in Northern Ireland.

INTERVIEWER

Alright, I mean obviously put this into political context for us, the fact that Sinn Féin now has been raided, it's going to be a tricky time?

REPORTER

Very likely we'll be hearing a lot more from Sinn Féin in the coming hours and days, we understand from Sinn Féin that they will be making representations to the British Minister responsible for Northern Ireland, Mr Reid, but they will be asking, asking him to do a number of things. It is still early stages to find out exactly how Sinn Féin play this.

INTERVIEWER

Will there be ramifications on the streets of Belfast as a result?
REPORTER

Sinn Féin have a large and growing popular support base, it has been one of their strategies in the past to demonstrate their strength, to demonstrate their popularity by encouraging street protests, of in recent years very peaceful for the most parts street protests, but it's not inconceivable that this may be a course they actually choose to take at this stage.

Mark Simpson - Sinn Féin Raid - BBC News 24

MARK SIMPSON

Yes, it's been a morning of high drama here at Stormont. Around 20 police officers arrived about 8.30 this morning, and they spent an hour searching one of Sinn Féin 's offices in Parliament Buildings behind me here at Stormont. At the same time, in nearby North and West Belfast police also raided a number of houses and I understand four arrests were made, and a number of documents seized. 

Now I have with me, Conor Murphy from Sinn Féin , who is an Assembly member, who would have been in that office on a number of occasions which had been searched this morning. Conor Murphy, this is all highly embarrassing for Sinn Féin ?

CONOR MURPHY

No, it's highly frustrating and it's highly annoying for Sinn Féin . I think this was clearly a very politically motivated raid by a politically motivated police force. I think the seriousness of the raid was shown when the police abandoned it in mid stream, when the media arrived. And I think it's absolutely outrageous. 

I think if John Reid is behind this raid this morning then I think he needs to explain what exactly he's doing, and if he's not behind the raid, I think he needs to explain what a force under his control is doing to serve a very much Anti-Agreement agenda this time, in a difficult time in the peace process.

MARK SIMPSON

The police will say they were only doing their job. Did they take anything away from your Sinn Féin office?

CONOR MURPHY

Not that I'm aware of, and if they were only doing their job, they seemed to suddenly lose interest in their job when the media arrived, because they were about half way through the search when they suddenly upped and left when the TV cameras arrived. I don't think this was any serious intent on discovering anything in our office. These offices are used to serve our Assembly operation, they have been for 4 or 5 years now. I think it's absolutely outrageous that the police come here and raid our offices, and I think they need to explain the motives behind this.

MARK SIMPSON

But it is highly embarrassing for Sinn Féin , it is also a little undignified. I was here whenever Bairbre de Brun, Northern Ireland's Health Minister, a member of Sinn Féin arrived, and there she was shouting at police officers, that's highly undignified?

CONOR MURPHY

Well I mean if police officers hadn't arrived into our offices to raid them and to upset our attempt to run an efficient Assembly operation here, none of that would have happened. I think it's highly embarrassing for the Secretary of State, here he is in control of the police force and this is the sort of activity they're carrying out, which clearly serves as an Anti-Agreement agenda, and I think he has a lot of explaining to do.

I think we'd like to hear from him what the intent behind this raid was, because as far as we can see there was no serious attempt in finding anything subversive here, it was an attempt on making a political statement by this raid.

MARK SIMPSON

Just briefly, do you think this will have any effect on the overall peace process, or will it just go down in history as another storm in a teacup?

CONOR MURPHY

Well, it think it clearly serves the Anti-Agreement agenda. I think it serves the agenda of those who are trying to get the Ulster Unionist Party to pull out of this Assembly and to bring down these institutions, and if that was the intention of those behind the raid, well then I think that some serious questions need answered.

MARK SIMPSON

Conor Murphy of Sinn Féin , thank you very much indeed. Well, the very latest here from Stormont is that those searches have now finished. But it think the political row is only just beginning.

Oct. 6, 2002

BOB McCARTNEY, BBC Northern Ireland reporter; TOM KELLY, chairman of the SDLP's communications group; BRIAN GARRETT, former Northern Ireland Labour Party member; EILISH ROONEY, lecturer at Ulster University - SEVEN DAYS
 

SEAMUS BOYD

Bob McCartney, to you first, and I suppose you're going to give us the longest, I told you so in history?

BOB McCARTNEY

Well, that is so self evident that I will resist it. But what I can say having listened to that hysterical (unclear) of hypocrisy from Martin McGuinness worthy of Joseph Goebbels, as far as what has been revealed recently, it just confirms what I have believed from the beginning. (Unclear) said that war is politics by other means. War in the form of violent republicanism has served republicanism very well, against a weak and supine British Government in succession of it. 

What has happened now is, that having got these massive gains allegedly by political means, but really under the threat of actual violence and the threat of violence, it has got to the pitch where the Agreement is being exposed for the fraud it always was, in that the only sanction, and when no sanction will, the only obligation that was imposed upon Sinn Féin/IRA for they are inextricably linked, was that like all other parties.

This is the term of the Belfast Agreement, that like other parties, they should use their best endeavours to bring about decommissioning by 22nd of May 2000. Now, that was a toothless obligation. It didn't require Sinn Féin to deliver decommissioning, indeed they threatened to walk away from the negotiations the week before, if any obligation was imposed upon them to bring about decommissioning. 

We are now seeing that the Sinn Féin and the IRA are continuing to prepare for a situation where their demands are no longer met, and they have to go back to war. Hence a list of almost 2000 people who have been targeted ranging from politicians, security people and others.

SEAMUS BOYD

Thanks, Bob. Tom Kelly, is that how you see it, I doubt it?

 TOM KELLY

Well, obviously it's a difficult time now of the peace process and there is going to be considerable fall out from the raid particularly in Stormont. I suppose last week, because I mean I have reservations about that in the sense that it's a Parliament Building, you have to be very sure of your ground in terms of going into a Parliament Building and I do think that there was a degree of heavy handedness in terms to the police raid on that building. That's not to say that I don't support the right of the police to pursue the evidence where they see it fit, and if people are using the veil of democracy in any way to subvert the democratic process, then the police have a right to go there as well. 

But I do think, I mean I put down a (unclear) to say that it may have been heavy handed, and a lot more for the optics, and a lot less for the actual investigation in terms of the way it handled the Stormont aspect of it. I think John Reid has summed it up very well, in a sense that people have to honour their commitments. 

I mean, Martin McGuinness as said in that interview, that he and those in the republican community understand the genuine concerns of the unionist community. But it seems to me that those genuine concerns are by and large in the entire unionist community, from what I can see, and he knows what he has to do to address them, and what they have to do is assure people that they're not going back to war. 

And that's a very simple thing for the IRA to do, and a very simple thing for Sinn Féin to do. If Sinn Féin can disavow themselves from the IRA, the republican wing and move on, or they can stand down the IRA if they have the power to do that, in terms of the republican community, in terms of their clout. That relies very much within their own remit. 

There's no doubt about it though, that at the same time there are people from the unionist community, unionist leadership who want to be able to say, 'I told you so, this is the way it's going to be'. But they have been less than forthright, and I'm not necessarily saying Bob, but they have been less than forthright into condemning loyalist violence, and loyalist murders (unclear).

BOB McCARTNEY

Oh certainly not in my, I am the one politician in Stormont 

TOM KELLY

I said I'm not including you 

BOB McCARTNEY

 yes and don't include me, that has refused to have anything whatever to do with the representatives of Protestant, loyalist paramilitaries and indeed have afforded the same attitude to Sinn Féin.

SEAMUS BOYD

Eilish Rooney, how do you see the events of the past few days impacting on the process here? Do you think that this whole process is in terminal decline?

EILISH ROONEY

No it's not. There's more to the Good Friday Agreement and the arrangements there than in Stormont, and in what happened at Stormont. So, I think that, if you like, one leg of the stool may collapse in the next week, okay.

I mean, for many nationalists and I don't think this is appreciated, either by John Reid or by anybody who's spoken so far, many nationalists will see the attack on Sinn Féin offices in Stormont as an attack on democracy. And many nationalists will see it as same old, same old. That you can get in, you can enter the political process, but hey if we need to stage some theatre or if we need to do something to get unionists out of it, we can do it. 

I mean, that may seem a very crude analysis, but that will be largely a reaction, and whenever John Reid talked about not just unionists are dissatisfied, but others, in someway the image that comes to my mind is he's washing his hands in words, because who is he talking about, whenever he says, not just unionists but others, because you haven't heard any nationalists, what is the state the SDLP? 

What is the state of the SDLP's agreement to go on the Policing Board? How does it look whenever you've got 30 police personnel in riot gear, attacking the office of a political party? 

And I agree with Tom, if you don't have evidence with what you're up to, it's legitimate. I mean, it all has this whiff of theatre about it, it all has the whiff of theatre, that it's a set up job and that they knew that Stormont was going to collapse, let's do it, and make Sinn Féin look that they're responsible for it.

SEAMUS BOYD

Brian Garrett, is that how it looked to you?

BRIAN GARRETT

I think perhaps the most important thing to happen, (unclear) what Dr Reid was saying at the start of it. Now, as I understand it the implication that is being taken out of it is that he was saying that the IRA or Sinn Féin, have got to say the war is over, or the IRA is being stood down. I didn't take that out of what Dr Reid was saying. And the more, (unclear), he did say, however, that the people would have, he would have to be convinced that this has stopped, whatever this is, we can have a fair idea and there'd be (unclear).

SEAMUS BOYD

(Question unclear).

BRIAN GARRETT

It's a signal rather than a statement. All I'm saying is that in having, we've all gone through the last 4 years, with all the rhetoric of all parties, including Governments. I rather think we're going to find a lot of interpretation in passing during the next week of what he's just said. The reality is however, and you very rightly at the start of this programme said we can't deal with the question of guilt or innocence, and we should really leave that to the side, but we must deal with the question of implications. It seems to me there is no way out of this. 

People will not wait for court cases, whether on Colombia, in relation to Castlereagh, in relation to these events. We're in it now, and I cannot see, bear with me for a moment, I cannot see how any, even the greatest contortionist who leads a moderate unionist party can deliver anything but to say it can't go on. Now that's a reality, whether we like it or not, it's a reality, and I agree with (unclear) that happens, then we're into a (unclear) community crisis.

EILISH ROONEY

But does that explain what happened at Stormont?

 BRIAN GARRETT

Well, I'm dealing with the question essentially of implication for the Agreement for a moment. We will all take different views about what happened at Stormont.

BOB McCARTNEY

Well, I agree with what Brian has said. But just to come back to what Eilish has said. As I understand it, this investigation into the offices. There may have been a more, security personnel than was strictly necessary. But who's to know. The second thing is as far as the publicity is concerned, I understand it was Sinn Féin people who broke the Assembly rules that cameras were only to be allowed in the Hall, and brought them up into the building to make public, they were anxious, not the Government, not the Police Service of Northern Ireland, but Sinn Féin itself were, in order that they could claim to some degree that their offices were being violated. 

Just a moment, I also agree with Tom Kelly, in that, obviously to take such an important step will require justification, and we're not yet at the position where we can say that. But the question must be asked of Eilish, and I think both Tom and I would both ask that question. What if it is justified? What if the evidence does pan out and show that this information was being obtained unlawfully? Was being stored in the Sinn Féin offices? Do we then say this is an attack? I mean to use a word, the word 'attack'.

SEAMUS BOYD

Let's just go back to one other thing, let's say there had been information, and I'm going to let Eilish address that in a moment. But let's say there had been information leaked to Sinn Féin. How different is that Eilish to information being leaked to any other political party?

EILISH ROONEY

Well, you tell me Seamus, you've interviewed enough people, I'm sure about leaks in the past. I haven't interviewed anybody about leaks in the past. But there have been enough political parties who've, you know, and Bob would know it as well, who have gained leaks. I mean, if you took the history of politics here, is one of leak, after leak, after leak, usually the senior people in

DUP or the UUP, and when I say it has a whiff of theatre about it, I'm not undermining the seriousness of it Bob, but what I'm saying to you is that, and we don't know if some camera crew was alerted in advance , I mean there are some question that may be some camera crew was alerted in advance. 

I'm just saying that what this signals to people, to the electorate of Sinn Féin for a start, who nobody seems to care about, doesn't seem to matter to anybody how those people feel about seeing their political party attacked in this way. The other thing is that apparently some investigation was known about from as far back as July. There's talk about some person being an employee in Castle Buildings up until September of last year. There's all this smoke and mirror stuff, that I really haven't got a clear handle on it, Seamus.

BRIAN GARRETT

If that's the nature of the rhetoric we're going to have, you can see what the next few months are full of. If you, a non-member of any of these matters take that view, then we're in for a pretty rough ride here. The reality is we should leave this question of implications for a moment. Sorry, of guilt and innocent away. We should deal with implications, and a lot of people are going to be very anxious today, about what's going to happen in both communities.

TOM KELLY

Can I say that the implications and there will be falling out of it. If John Reid calls, if they ever call, if the British ever calls a line and bring an exclusion order for anybody who's been acting in bad faith, the that's a matter for John Reid. 

The implications only follow that, and we all have to wait until John Reid makes that, it looks as if he's pushed it out for another 2 weeks. But the bottom line is, and Bob McCartney has said it before, about the sort of fudge process that we're in. 

I probably disagree with Bob in the sense that I believe by nature and by necessity, it has to be a nudge and fudge process. The entire peace process. There was no way there was ever going to be any movement in Northern Ireland, unless we took risks at various times and moved on. That's not to say that people haven't been given the reassurances that they were entitled to, and that people haven't approached the Agreement in good faith. And I think that that needs to be addressed fundamentally. 

But if you're going to have a set-up like Stormont, which is totally unique in western democracy terms, then you're going to have to accept a lot of what goes along with that. Now the problem is, that mainly from what I can see in the unionist community, because, and again I agree with Bob McCartney, nationalist confidence is at an all-time high. And they feel that they've won a lot out of the Agreement. Unionists haven't felt that they've won, and something has to be done about that. And I think Martin McGuinness is recognising that.

BRIAN GARRETT

Tom, let's see what will happen. The reality is that none of us can see today, and of course, we can't speak for what David Trimble will say to the Prime Minister. But it looks to me as if he can't deliver any further, despite all the efforts that he's made over the years to do so. Now, if that's the case, the Agreement is at an end in terms of the Institutions, for this moment. 

The only thing that the Secretary of State can do in that situation, is to immediately suspend, during which time, I can be pretty certain there's going to be a large number of overtures to the SDLP about forming a coalition without Sinn Féin. Now that's going to be a crisis for the SDLP, and it's going to be a crisis for unionism.

SEAMUS BOYD

What will they do, Tom?

TOM KELLY

You see, I'm a member of the SDLP, and therefore, my view would be an absolute personal one. If there are defaulters, and I agree with Seamus Mallon, and if people default on what they signed up to in the Agreement, either in the substance of the Agreement or the spirit of the Agreement, then there should be a penalty to pay along with that. 

And I think that the SDLP should rise to that challenge themselves, if that comes along. That's my personal view in relation to that. I don't know what the SDLP will do when it comes to that. But I'm sure it's exercising the minds of those (unclear) of the SDLP at this minute in time. But what they've got to do, is go out and assertively say to people, if we are the guarantors of the agreement, then being guarantors of the Agreement means that you stand for the Agreement in its entirety. 

And, therefore, you should be brave enough to highlight the defaulters in that Agreement. And that includes, I mean those people who look to create a middle ground, have to accept the fact that there hasn't been much of a middle ground to meet on the other side. 

I mean I would be one of the people who would have argued for a middle ground. But the bottom line is, that when you see unionists regressing in many ways, into what could only be described as a DUP stance and an anti-Agreement stance, then you don't have a middle ground to build.

BOB McCARTNEY

Well, perhaps I could come in on that point, because the reason has got to be explained as to why there is regression. There may not have been regression if the Agreement had delivered fairly to both communities. But a whole range of people who would have supported the Agreement, starting with the Belfast Telegraph, and going through Archbishop Eames, to John Reid himself, have said Northern Ireland has become a cold place for unionists. And one must ask the question, why?

EILISH ROONEY

Bob, remind us, in the Agreement, what is it that nationalists have got out of the Agreement? You know, single-handedly, what have nationalists got out of the Agreement, other than an untrained full democracy?

BOB McCARTNEY

Well, first of all, I object to this allegation that nationalists didn't have an entree into full democracy before the Agreement. Tell me, what electoral process, prior to the Agreement, did nationalists not have an opportunity to vote and participate in.

SEAMUS BOYD

Okay, I can see the route you're going down, but answer Eilish's question.

BOB McCARTNEY

Well, that is the answer to Eilish's question.

SEAMUS BOYD

No, no the question was, what have Catholics got out of this Agreement, that Protestants haven't?

EILISH ROONEY

I said nationalists.

SEAMUS BOYD

Nationalists.

BOB McCARTNEY

Well, I'll tell you what they have got. And the events at Stormont illustrated it. They have got a total entrée into every aspect of the civil administration, including entrée by those such as the, shall we say, the sleepers of Sinn Féin, to deliver the sort of information that is being delivered to the IRA, and to Sinn Féin. That's one of the things they've got.

SEAMUS BOYD

That's not proven yet.
 

EILISH ROONEY

No, but the equality agenda benefits.

(UNCLEAR)

I mean what we had was an opportunity in this Agreement .

EILISH ROONEY

Each of you, sorry, let me just say, each of you has talked as though, each of you have said that nationalists have gained, have benefited from the Agreement, as though equality arrangements, human rights arrangements don't benefit everyone. I agree that there is a huge crisis of confidence within unionism. I would argue that much of that has been manufactured.

BOB McCARTNEY

But how has it benefited, Eilish, how has it benefited the RUC or PSNI applicants, who are fully qualified to take up a place, and who are not being admitted to the police force because they are being discriminated against.

EILISH ROONEY

What would you have done, Bob?

BOB McCARTNEY

Just a moment, just a moment. The basis for recruitment for each quarter was 60. There were 18 Catholic applicants, and there were 30 so-called Protestant applicants, all of whom had been vetted, all of whom had been qualified. But, because there were only 18 applicants, 12 applicants had to be dismissed from the Protestant side, and the police were deprived in total of 24 new recruits in circumstances when they are up against the wall. That's the sort of discrimination, reverse discrimination, that the pro-Union and Protestant community .

EILISH ROONEY

Bob, what would you have done? Bob, what would you have done?

TOM KELLY

There's no other way, you have to accept it. And I would have thought, Bob, particularly yourself, and Brian Garrett, who I have heard in the past argue for human rights legislation, argue for equal rights for people. That implies an acknowledgement that there was not necessarily a level playing field. And in fairness to you two, well certainly I'm not open to your anti-Agreement stance, and my view would have been, that you would have argued very strongly to make sure that there was a level playing field in Northern Ireland. I'm somebody who believes in trying to create stakeholders in Northern Ireland. 

You don't do that if you don't accept the fact that we needed all the legislation to create the level playing fields, so that people could become stakeholders. At this minute in time, people are beginning to become stakeholders in Northern Ireland, but people want to roll back some of the necessary legislation that ..

BOB McCARTNEY

You do not make for either good community relations, or for implementation of human rights, by granting human rights to one lot at the extent of denying them to others. I have been totally in favour of the equality agenda. I have all my life been totally opposed to discrimination of any kind, but I am in favour of equality of opportunity, not equality of (unclear).
 

Oct. 6, 2002

Secretary of State - Frost - BBC1

DAVID FROST

Now to Northern Ireland and where once again the talk is of crisis in the peace process. May be the most serious yet. In a moment I'll be talking to the Northern Ireland Secretary John Reid, who this weeks faces a difficult task of rebuilding such trust as there was even, between the political parties. Friday's police raid on the Sinn Féin offices at Stormont is part of an investigation to an alleged IRA spying operation has caused outrage. Unionists say that it shows Sinn Féin can't be trusted. Sinn Féin said the police action was politically motivated.

GERRY KELLY

The police should not be allowed in here. Wait a minute, let's be clear about this. This is the offices of a political party which signed up to the Good Friday Agreement, which sits in this Assembly, this is an Assembly building. Right? And they sent in, they sent in the PSNI to raid this building.

DAVID TRIMBLE

What we know so far, or suspect so far is that there's been IRA intelligence operation directed against the operations of the Government, having penetrated the Northern Ireland Office, and may be having penetrated other things as well. Now that places the responsibility clearly and unequivocally with John Reid and Tony Blair.

DAVID FROST

And John Reid is here right now, the Secretary of State. This amazing raid, with so many people involved, you said that you didn't know anything about it?

SECRETARY OF STATE

No, I've said that I was aware the investigation was ongoing, but the actual decision to move in, to bring charges and so on, that's a matter for the police, and it is neither politically motivated nor will it be interfered with and stopped politically. 

The police in a democracy have to follow where the evidence leads, and as you may know last night charges were brought, 5 charges against one of the people arrested. I think it's probable there will be other charges, this is nothing to do with publicity, this is a very serious and a very grave matter, and over the next couple of weeks, I think we're in a critical position. 

We certainly need answers from Sinn Féin and the republican movement. The people of Northern Ireland need answers, and certainly the Prime Minister wants answers. He had a meeting scheduled for the week after next, not the coming week, and he's trying to bring that forward, a meeting with Mr. Adams to find those answers. 

I'm passionate about this peace process, but I can't keep it going when there's at least a prima facie, that these short of things are happening, coming on top of the Colombian adventure, the burglary at Castlereagh, the charges being brought against one individual for targeting, and now this, and there may be other charges and other information coming out.

DAVID FROST

Now normally John, obviously the reassurance that the Government is not involved in the timing of these things, and so on, and it's the police's role, that's normally very, very reassuring, but in a case of somewhere as sensitive, politically sensitive as Northern Ireland at the moment. Shouldn't you have been involved, shouldn't you have been consulted when this raid was going to happen?

SECRETARY OF STATE

No, in any state where there's political direction of the police force, you have crossed that border away from democracy, we have a democratic state and while I set the broad objectives for policing. The police themselves have to carry out those operations, and what happened in this case was that some time ago at the end of last year, there was a disciplinary matter inside the Northern Ireland Office. 

Following that there was a wider investigation carried out by the police. When they reached the stage that they thought they had reached tentative view that there was something going on here. They informed me, I'm perfectly satisfied they did that at the appropriate stage, that was before July of this year. 

Afterwards when they had come to firmer conclusions, I informed the Prime Minister, but the matter, of the operational pursuit of the evidence, the bringing of charges and so on in a democracy is a matter for the police themselves. And that is exactly how this is being handled, and it won't wash quite frankly, for people to protest that this is somehow political. 

This is a matter for charges being brought last night, perhaps more, and anyone irrespective of what side of the community they come from must be equal before the law, but they must not get any more benefits than anyone else.

DAVID FROST

But 13 months seems a long time, that's why Sinn Féin is suspicious about the timing, I suppose, but it is a long time to follow this through, isn't it?

SECRETARY OF STATE

Well police inquiries take time, particularly if their inquiry is into something of this nature. We know that in certain murder cases, years afterwards it's still not possible to prove who has done it, and there's many of them in Northern Ireland. So this isn't an easy job, the police have carried out their job efficiently, they have informed me at the appropriate stage, not with the view to getting my authority or otherwise. That is a matter for the police themselves, and we really need some answers now.

DAVID FROST

And in terms of the situation for the peace process. David McKittrick this week, a distinguished commentator writing about, this was before this latest case.

SECRETARY OF STATE

Yes.

DAVID FROST

He was saying, this is for the simple reason that the prevailing mood in political circles is that the Good Friday Agreement is very probably doomed, and only has a few months of life in it. This all stems from the central and incontestable fact that almost the entire Protestant and unionist community is now opposed to the Good Friday Agreement. Doomed?

 SECRETARY OF STATE

I don't know that it's doomed, but there is a lot of substance in what David McKittrick said, and why has this come about? Because the Good Friday Agreement was not just a series of things to be done, it was based on the principles laid down by George Mitchel and agreed by all of the parties to it. That they would commit themselves to exclusively, peaceful and democratic means. 

So when we get allegations that one of the parties, to this the republican movement have been involved in consorting with terrorists in Colombia, or the police believe that they are the people who are behind the burglary at Castlereagh, taking away information that would certainly be of use to terrorists, or we have charges up against members for either targeting, or we get the incidence of the shooting last week of Mr. McBrearty, or we get this sort of example. 

Can you blame anyone, not just unionists, but others for saying: well people have tried to ride two horses here? So we need some straight answers in this in the coming week. We need to know from Sinn Féin and the republican movement, that this has stopped, that there will be no more of this.

I am passionately committed to this Agreement, and those areas of it which are under by control, the equality agenda, the human rights agenda, the reform of the institutions, I will proceed with them. What I can't do, when people are taking risks and undermining the political element of it, I can't force people to work together, when they feel that there is bad faith (unclear).

DAVID FROST

But this morning it would be fair to say, because of this concatenation, the list you just gave, topped by the latest events, that the peace process is in a greater state of crisis today, than it's ever been so far?

SECRETARY OF STATE

I think that we're at a stage where there is not only serious and grave as the Irish Prime Minister said in the last few days. I think this is at a critical stage, and somehow we have to have an assurance that if these things have happened in the past, they will happen no longer. Now, we've never had a signal of that nature. 

The IRA have never been prepared to say the war is over, or that the Army, stood down. We are, we've come a huge way in terms of the ceasefire. There has been no attacks on the police, on the Army, no planting of bombs, but the constant drip feed of allegations that the maintenance of the apparatus of terror is still being carried on, is undermining hugely the confidence in this Agreement.

DAVID FROST

One paradox here, adds McKittrick, not grasped by the average Protestant in the street, has been that the majority of killings and riots have been the work, not of republicans, but of loyalists. Most Protestants are reversed to confronting such realities?

SECRETARY OF STATE

Well, they should confront it. It is absolutely true that he vast majority of the murderous sectarian attempts that are being made have been made by loyalists. Last week we arrested one leading loyalist, the week before we did, last night we arrested another loyalist. 

So that is absolutely true, but there's one difference, the loyalists are not in Government, the republicans are in Government, and to be in Government and associated in any way with a level of violence or maintenance of a terrorist or a private army, that is a hugely difficult problem. 

But that does not diminish the fact that we have to counter the loyalist, murderous, loyalist attacks, and of doing so, as I said last night, last week, the week before, we're arresting them as well.

DAVID FROST

And finally, how long has Sinn Féin got to summarise all the things you've been saying to clear the air? Is it a matter of days or weeks, or months?

SECRETARY OF STATE

Well, I think over the next couple of weeks, we have to find a solution to this problem. The events which we're speaking about, I won't go into detail of them, but the events that these charges related took place some time ago. But there has to be an assurance that they are no longer, and will no longer will happen, otherwise I just can't magic up confidence across the community.

DAVID FROST

Thank you very much indeed, John. Let's go, will you stay with us for a moment, because we're turning next to the Labour Conference last week in Blackpool, because I know you'll have some views on this as well.

Oct. 7, 2002

The local papers are dominated by charges brought against Sinn Féin's head of administration at Stormont. Meanwhile the national press mostly carry front page stories speculating that the Northern Ireland Assembly is about to collapse. Broadcast news also reports on loyalist gun fire targeting a police patrol in North Belfast last night and confirmation of redundancies at Harland and Wolff is expected today.

North and West Belfast and Stormont Police Raids

Denis Donaldson, Sinn Féin administrator at Stormont, was in court last night charged with having personnel details of the Head of the British Army in Northern Ireland and a serving police officer. Also in court was Fiona Farrelly charged with having personnel details of Northern Ireland Business Service employees. 

Meanwhile two other men, Kieran Kearney and former NIO employee William Mackessy were still being questioned Irish News (P1,2). See also News Letter (P1,2,6), Irish Times (P1), Irish Independent (P1), Independent (P1), Guardian (P1,2), Times (P1), Financial Times (P2), Daily Telegraph (P1), Daily Mail (P17), Daily Express (P2), Mirror (P1,4,5), Sun (P2).

It is alleged in the Daily Telegraph (P2) that IRA spying activities gave Sinn Féin the upper hand in negotiations. The Prime Minister is to hold crisis talks with Sinn Féin and the UUP this week as the Executive edges closer to collapse Irish News (P2).

Oct. 7, 2002
DAVID TRIMBLE, TALKBACK 

DAVID TRIMBLE

I am not too pleased at some of the things that I have heard from the Secretary of State so far. I saw comments from him on Friday suggesting that in some way we should wait until the legal process is exhausted before coming to any judgement on the matter.

I find that an astonishing comment. Did, people, at the time of Watergate say that we have to wait until the legal processes with regard to the break-in at the Watergate Building have been exhausted before asking questions about who knew what, when and who organised it? No they did not. And so far as our situation is concerned what would happen is 10 times worse than anything that happened in Watergate. I don't think people fully appreciate the enormity of what has happened. Charges are being made with regard to collecting information likely to be of assistance to terrorists. 

Of those charges, presumably there is a basis for them, but I am actually concerned obviously about that aspect of things and even more concerned about the political aspect of this. For a year, while we were meeting from time to time with the Secretary of State to discuss what might be done in a situation where we met, freely discussing on each side the tactics that might be adopted, Sinn Féin were reading the minutes of all those meetings. 

There has been political espionage on a massive scale, and as far as one can see, that espionage was directed by the republican movement for the purpose of aiding their political projects and their political tactics. Now that raises huge questions, it raises huge questions as to how it happened, there has clearly been a high level of incompetence in the Northern Ireland Office. 

And I think that Sinn Féin have to be much more open about this. I drew the Watergate analogy and the question that was asked obviously immediately after Watergate is what did the President know and when did he know it? 

These questions have to be put to Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams. What did you know about this? Did you direct this? When did you find out about it?

MEDIA

Do you think Jeffrey Donaldson's argument that really Sinn Féin have only got a matter of days left in this Assembly?

DAVID TRIMBLE

There are a number of possibilities in this situation, people know what they are in terms of exclusions, suspensions, there are a number of particular options here. Whatever the options are, we will be asking Government and other parties to think hard and carefully about what they do and, in fact, we may be asking other parties to stretch themselves. 

The likelihood of them stretching themselves is diminished if the impression is given that the demand has been made on behalf of people who want to put an end to these institutions and to destroy the Agreement, in that sense. I am sorry I have to say that I find some of Jeffrey's comments counterproductive, and I think the best thing Jeffrey could do is to reflect on the advice aptly gave to Harold (unclear) one time that a period of silence from you would be welcome.
 

Oct. 7, 2002

LIAM CREA, SKY NEWS 11 AM 

INTERVIEWER

That is a pretty grim assessment by David Trimble there, 10 times worse than the Watergate scandal.

LIAM CREA

Indeed, and 'political espionage on a massive scale'. One thing that was pointed out to David Trimble at the press conference by reporters was that there has been this kind of political espionage happening from the unionist side as well, because we in the media have had various leaks down through the years about things that are happening within the police or things that were happening within other parties. 

So it is nothing new. But David Trimble was saying this is on a massive scale and that is what makes it so different, and also so dangerous in that allegedly addresses were found, including details of the GOC who are in Northern Ireland. So with allegations like that it makes it much more serious than just simple titbits of information coming from party to party. 

But also he is worried about secret conversations that unionists have had with the Secretary of State in Castle Buildings, that word of that has spilled out to Sinn Féin, and Sinn Féin were able to read everything that went on there and brief themselves in advance knowing little bits of background that maybe perhaps they shouldn't have known. 

So it is very serious and in fact the mood up here in Stormont is very, very serious and very frantic. Parties are arriving and running between offices, they are running out to talk to the media, they are running back into offices, they are having meetings, they are calling for the Assembly to discuss all of this when, in fact, it shouldn't have been discussing this today, it should have been discussing the situation in fur farming, of all things.

INTERVIEWER

This is a big explosive issue there at the Assembly, a lot of briefings, running backwards and forwards, pictures there we are seeing of the raid on Friday, of course. What has Sinn Féin been saying this morning? Is their assessment of the situation now equally bleak, that the future of the Assembly could be wrecked on the handling of this master?

LIAM CREA

Indeed, they don't want John Reid to have a knee-jerk reaction. They want him to actually think about the process of law. They want to go down and talk to Bertie Ahern, the Taoiseach, this afternoon they are hoping to see him, or possibly tomorrow. 

And they want cool heads all around. They know that they are on a sticky wicket. Obviously the world's media saw what went on here on Friday, within this building. They saw the police in armoured landrovers going into the Sinn Féin office. Sinn Féin welcome that kind of image because it makes them look as if this was a Jack boot sort of way to work by the police, which they see as just the old RUC, they say that they are still at the bottom end of all this. 

So those images suited them, what doesn't suit them is what's coming out, what's coming out in the court and what is going to come out in Parliament here at Stormont. So they feel as if they are in a corner and they have to get out of that corner somehow and they want this establishment, Stormont, to remain, as does the SDLP. 

But the DUP and the anti-Agreement unionists within David Trimble's party are quite happy to see the institutions fall or be suspended, because they say to the like of David Trimble, we told you all along, we have been telling you here you cannot trust Sinn Féin, now you are seeing the fruits of Sinn Féin's labours here in Stormont.

Oct. 7, 2002

GERRY ADAMS, SINN FÉIN - BBC NEWS 24 

GERRY ADAMS

I do think, you know, without in any way deminimising the sense of frenzy about this place and, you know, people can create their own sense of panic and crisis. I don't think we should under-estimate the fact that the process is in a crisis. Now, when that crisis commenced, in my view, was at the Ulster Unionist Council meeting, when that party opted into the anti-Agreement camp, and decided to exit out of these Institutions. 

I think then a whole range of developments have played into that, and many of you who witnessed, I wasn't here at the time, but many of you who witnessed the police raid on our offices up the stairs, may have also been pleased to hear last night in the court, that the evidence presented against Denis Donaldson did not include the two disks which were stolen from our offices. 

So we had this piece of political theatre, which was obviously aimed at tying, not just Sinn Féin, but Sinn Féin's operation at this Assembly into whatever else is happening. And, in my view, this is because an element within the British system, working out that the Institutions are likely to come down, are trying to end, ensure that if and when that happens, that it will do so at a time and in a way where republicans get the blame.

I think there's also much short termism. And I think, you know, there have been so many things have happened here in the recent past, and so many bizarre and grotesque incidents and developments, and unbelievable events, that people could think, well this is doomed. And, maybe yes, in the short term, it is. But why? Because in the longer term, all of us are going to have to come together, and put it together again.

And there's a gremlin in the works, that's probably British intelligence placing new bugs (re the background noise).

Let no-one doubt for a moment that it will have to be put together again on the template of the Good Friday Agreement.

Let me also express a view which I have heard last evening and all today, at the sense, and this is the way this place works, at the sense of outrage, palpable outrage, within nationalism and republicanism, around how this has been depicted. And people remember the thousands of intelligence files and security force documents from the British so-called security establishment, which has papered the walls of gable ends of this city, and which led to the deaths of many, many people.

People remember, and I note some of our unionist colleagues here, the number of times unionist politicians were proud to leak documents from the NIO, and prove that they were in the know about developments within that establishment. So people are concerned, quite rightly, and are apprehensive, quite rightly, about the short term. And I am concerned also. 

But in the longer term, the longer term, there's no way forward except forward. And those who have moved into the anti-Agreement camp, even though their hearts may be in the future, need to face up to that. There is no such thing any longer as people acquiescing to second-class citizenship. 

We're not going to do it. We understand we have a responsibility, we have tried to live up to that responsibility, we will continue to try to live up to that responsibility. But neither John Reid, nor the leaders of unionism, are going to be able to prevent a process of change which is required. They can delay it, they can perhaps divert it, but they cannot stop.

And I want with the last remark. It's incomprehensive to me that Dr John Reid has cancelled a meeting, which I requested in the wake of the UUC meeting. It's took some time to put together, which was scheduled for today, and he, unilaterally, cancelled that meeting. 

It's incomprehensible to me, and others have said when he's tripping off to meet the UDA, when he's ignoring the killings and other woundings, the ongoing attacks, even this weekend. It's incomprehensible to me, at a time when people should be trying to talk, that he refuses to meet.

We intend to meet with as many of the pro-Agreement parties as we can, today. I will, as you know, and it's quaintly described, and erroneously described as me being summoned to Downing Street. I will, as you know, be meeting with the British Prime Minister and also with the Taoiseach.

Oct. 7, 2002

GERRY ADAMS, SINN FÉIN - RAID ON STORMONT - SKY NEWS

REPORTER

We're just waiting to hear what Mr. Adams has to say. Clearly he's waiting for some other camera crews to get ready. We're standing by of course, that follows of course that announcement a few moments ago by Ian Paisley, the leader of the DUP that he is withdrawing his members from the Assembly until there is proper and full debate of what he calls a very grave situation. 

Now we're just waiting to see what Gerry Adams, is actually making his mind up about doing here. Perhaps we can hear from him now.

LIAM CREAGH

Okay, well joining us here at Stormont is Gerry Adams of Sinn Féin. Mr. Adams was is the situation at the moment in relation to Sinn Féin?

GERRY ADAMS

Well the situation is it's business as usual for us. The question, it is more a question, is what is the situation at the moment for the British Government? You may know that Dr John Reid cancelled a meeting which was in the planning with him going back three weeks since indeed the UUC meeting of the Ulster Unionist Party, when they went for a position of walking out of these institutions.

I find it totally and absolutely, given the spin that's been round the events of recent days, and before that, totally incomprehensible that the British Secretary of State would refuse to do a meeting at this time.

LIAM CREAGH

You must understand all what's going on up there at the moment, given that David Trimble called it espionage, political espionage of a massive scale?

GERRY ADAMS

He also called it Watergate. I'm sure Richard Nixon, God rest him, wouldn't agree with that. I mean let's not carried away by hyperbole, and by the overstatement in all of this. Clearly there are problems in this process. This current crisis can be dated to the point where the UUP party took on an Anti-Agreement stance, that's three weeks ago or so. 

What's been happening since, in my view, elements in the British establishment reading like the rest of us, the reality that the Ulster Unionist Party was going to pull out of the institutions, and maybe there's a bit of jockeying going on between the DUP and the UUP as to who will walk out first. 

Elements within the British system have tried to ensure that when that happens, that it will look as if republicans are at fault, and that's what we've seen, you were here, or some of your people were here the other day, when the police raided our offices. 

I was in the court last night, the two discs that were taken from our offices, it was made very, very clear in the court last night, form no evidence at all, so this was a piece of political theatre to try and thread Sinn Féin or tie Sinn Féin into whatever is happening in the murky world of British Securocratdom, so I mean let's get real about all of this. 

These institutions, if they come down, will come down because the unionists have decided facing into an election, that they aren't going to deal with all of the issues, as problems to be resolved, but rather as obstacles to a process. 

I think an awful lot of the responsibility, and obviously there's a collective responsibility here, has to rest with John Reid's handling of the situation, and I mean today's cancellation of the meeting, is but the latest in, you know, one day at a time tactical. You know, perhaps I should go to the UDA to get a meeting arranged with the Secretary of State.

LIAM CREAGH

David Trimble's detractors will say perhaps, I told you so, you couldn't trust Sinn Féin, what would you say to David Trimble?

GERRY ADAMS

Well, we intend to meet with all the Pro-Agreement parties today, and you know, I have been very very clear, and up front with Mr. Trimble and with everyone else. All of us have a leadership role to play in sorting this out. If it can't be sorted out now, we're only putting off the point when it will be sorted out. So let's draw a breath, let's be calm. And you know, those who are attacking me, or attacking Mr. Trimble or others want this process to fail. Let's not let them have their day.

Oct. 7, 2002

MARTIN MCGUINNESS, RADIO 4 - TODAY PROGRAMME 

INTERVIEWER

Later this week the Prime Minister is going to have the Sinn Féin leadership into Downing Street, it will be no surprise to them if he asks for their response to the allegations of an intelligence gathering operation at the heart of Government. All this of course is against the background of a very serious political situation in the Province. David Trimble, the First Minister is talking later today, one of his close associates told us earlier that the power sharing executive was almost over. A little earlier I spoke to the Sinn Féin MP Martin McGuinness, a Minister in that Executive of course, and asked him whether he thought that power sharing could continue?

MARTIN MCGUINNESS

I think the situation is undoubtedly very serious indeed. And for many of us within the broad nationalist/republican community on the island of Ireland, it is out view that the death knell for the institutions was effectively sounded by the Ulster Unionist Council meeting of two weeks ago whenever David Trimble and the people that we thought were pro-Agreement within his section of the Ulster Unionist Party, effectively lurched into anti-Agreement mode and joined with Jeffrey Donaldson and David Burnside to effectively signal their withdrawal from the institutions.

INTERVIEWER

When you say that Mr. Trimble and his colleagues lurched into anti-Agreement mode, what they would say is that Sinn Féin lurched into anti-Agreement mode when the head of administration at Stormont is found to have details in his office which is of an intimate security nature and have got nothing to do with his job.

MARTIN MCGUINNESS

I believe Dennis Donaldson is a scape-goat. I have no doubt that he is entirely innocent of any allegations or charges 

INTERVIEWER

Are you saying the documents were planted?

MARTIN MCGUINNESS

What I am saying is that we are going to have to wait now for some time to see whether or not he is going to be released, and in my view no one has a right at this stage of the proceedings to judge Dennis Donaldson's situation.

INTERVIEWER

You would agree, would you, that there is no reason for him to have these security documents with details of people's home addresses and drawings and plans, as part of his job? Would you accept that?

MARTIN MCGUINNESS

I think implicit in your question is a judgement.

INTERVIEWER

Let me make this clear, it is reported that these documents were found. He has been charged, the due process will go into that, it will be decided whether this is true or false. I am making no judgement about that at all. I am simply asking you that if people were to have documents like that in that office, would that be a proper function of that office or not?

MARTIN MCGUINNESS

Let me tell you something which I think will be bored out by events, nothing was found in the Sinn Féin offices in Stormont. What happened at Stormont was for the optics, it was part of the preparation of an exit strategy for the Ulster Unionists, and I am afraid to say I think that the British Government, under the NIO have been up to their necks in trying to provide that.

INTERVIEWER

If the institutions were suspended this week, if direct rule were re-imposed and many people think that's what will happen, what would the consequence be?

MARTIN MCGUINNESS

I think the consequences will be that it will be a very long time, if ever, before we would see power sharing or all Ireland institutions. I think effectively the Good Friday Agreement would be dead in the water.

INTERVIEWER

And what would happen to the IRA ceasefire?

MARTIN MCGUINNESS

Well you would have to ask the IRA I tell you what I would do. I would still be absolutely and totally committed to Sinn Féin's peace strategy. Because whatever comes out of all of this, there would still be a huge responsibility on all politicians, including ourselves within Sinn Féin, to work with Tony Blair, to work with the Ulster Unionist Party, whether they are in anti-Agreement mode or not, to work with other parties including the Irish Government, to ensure that the peace process continues and to ensure that the type of change that the Good Friday Agreement held, actually comes about.

****

Oct. 7, 2002

DAVID TRIMBLE - RADIO ULSTER NEWS AT 11.00 AM

MALACHI McCOURT

The Ulster Unionist leader, David Trimble, has accused Sinn Féin of political conspiracy on a massive scale, and says he wants the Prime Minister to act. Mr. Trimble's meeting with Tony Blair to discuss allegations of IRA intelligence gathering has been brought forward to tomorrow. Speaking at Stormont this morning, he said the situation is so serious, he needs to see the Prime Minister as soon as possible. Mr. Trimble says the Northern Ireland Office is guilty of a high level of incompetence, and he accused Sinn Féin of political espionage.

DAVID TRIMBLE

What has happened is 10 times worse than anything that happened in Watergate. And I don't think people fully appreciate the enormity of what has happened. For a year, while we were meeting, from time to time with the Secretary of State, Sinn Féin were reading the minutes of all those meetings.

MALACHI McCOURT

The DUP has filed a motion to exclude Sinn Féin from the Executive with the Speaker's office. To force the debate, the party needs 30 signatures on a petition of concern. The signatures are still being gathered.
 

Oct. 7, 2002

MARK SIMPSON - 11.00 NEWS

INTERVIEWER

Dramatic stuff, Mark, 10 times worse than Watergate. What will be happening there at Stormont today?

MARK SIMPSON

Well, believe it or not, in spite of the dramatic events of last week, it's business as usual here at the Assembly. Business is due to start in about an hour's time. Here is the order tabled on the agenda - fur farming, childcare, roads, health, education. No sign at all, anywhere, of the crisis in the peace process. 

But what I can tell you is, within the past half hour, the leader of the Democratic Unionist Party, Ian Paisley, that people will know well, he's gone to the Speaker of the Assembly here, Lord Alderdice, and said, this is just ridiculous, we need an emergency debate, and we should know within the next hour, if that debate is going to take place.

INTERVIEWER

So what are the prospects for power sharing to continue there?

MARK SIMPSON

Very gloomy indeed. One leading politician, in fact he's a Minister in the Government here, told me a short time ago, the situation is grim. The (unclear) in all of that, is that David Trimble was talking tough this morning, but he's not ready to walk out. He's talking the talk, but he's not walking the walk at the moment. And I think that's the cause of great relief in Downing Street. They want Mr. Trimble to hang in here a little longer, maybe a couple of weeks, to give Tony Blair maybe some time to try and sort this whole mess out.

INTERVIEWER

What's the Government likely to do? We heard from David Trimble in the little soundbite that we played. He was talking about the legal process. I mean obviously there is a legal process underway here, and the Government wouldn't want to pre-empt any of that.

MARK SIMPSON

I don't detect at the moment, within Downing Street, the mood to throw Sinn Féin out of Government immediately. They are adopting, a little bit like David Trimble, a wait and see approach. But I think the combination of events of the last week, the raids on Sinn Féin's office, all the shenanigans which there has been in the Assembly, within the Ulster Unionist Party, means that most parties here, if they're agreed on anything, they do seem to agree that devolution here in Northern Ireland, after a reasonably successful 3 years, is now on borrowed time.