Irish American Information Service

Last night's decision (2/7/02) by the Northern Ireland Police Board to leave operational control of the investigation into the 1998 Omagh bombing in the hands of the Police Service of Northern Ireland is being seen as a victory for PSNI Chief Constable Ronnie Flanagan.

In her scathing report into the PSNI's handling of the investigation of the bombing, Police Ombudsman Nuala O'Loan recommended that an Officer from outside the PSNI be brought in to lead the investigation.

But the Chief Constable has rejected the proposal that an outsider be brought in to head the investigation and said that the man who has been in charge, PSNI Superintendent
Brian McArthur, will remain in charge.

The Police Board cloaked their decision to reject O'Loan's key recommendation by appointing an assistant or deputy Chief Constable from England to work with the operational commander, Superintendent Brian McArthur and Detective Chief
Superintendent Philip Jones from Merseyside who has already been to Northern Ireland to act as an "adviser."

The two officers from Britain will report directly to the Chief Constable Sir Ronnie Flanagan and the new Northern Ireland policing board.

Relatives of the Omagh bomb victims are to meet next week to study new plans for the next stage of the police investigation into the atrocity. But with another outside officer due to be called in to "quality assure" the inquiry, some of the families today said they had reservations about its future direction.

Michael Gallagher, whose son Aidan was among the 29 people killed in the August l998 outrage said, "They talk about too many cooks spoiling the broth. Nobody is going to know who is doing what. The authority of everybody involved is going to be undermined, because nobody knows who is in charge."

Gallagher added, "The board failed to address the core issues raised by the families, such as the poor quality of the original inquiry which included the full exploration of
intelligence before the bomb, and the actual mechanism of dealing with the investigation."

He added, "It has been a difficult task for the board and it has mapped a course for future investigation. The test for that will be whether or not there will be convictions."

The Northern Ireland Police Ombudsman Nuala O`Loan whose devastating report of the Omagh investigation sparked a full scale row with Sir Ronnie is expected to comment later on the board decisions.

Northern Ireland police chiefs have greeted the decision to leave the PSNI in overall charge of the investigation. Sources close to the chief constable have said the new appointment should not be seen as a rejection of his proposals.

"Ultimately when you look at what powers that individual will have they are no more than the Merseyside advisor presently has," one said.

"This is not evidence in any way that we haven`t done a good job or that we are incapable of doing a good job. The perception that we have brought in an advisor from
Merseyside and it wasn`t enough and we have somehow been slapped down is misleading."

McArthur is to retain operational command of the investigation with a direct reporting line to the Chief Constable. The officer appointed by the board will have an overview of
all matters without operational control.

These responsibilities will include:

• to critically examine the resource and skill levels needed to satisfactorily conclude the investigation;
• undertaking a quality assurance role, particularly regarding the internal police probe which formed the basis of O`Loan`s report;
• monitoring progress in the investigation;
• enhancing further working practices with the Gardai in relation to the Omagh bomb inquiry;
•  identifying further obstacles standing in the way of progress;
• offer strategic guidance to the board;

report to the board at agreed intervals.

Talk Shows Tackle Ombudsman Question

The following are broadcast commentaries on Feb. 8, 2002, following the failure of the Police Board to implement Police Ombudsman Nuala O'Loan's recommendations. The transcripts are courtesy of the Northern Ireland Information Service. 

Fred Cobain belongs to the Ulster Unionist Party and is Northern Ireland Assembly member. Gerry Kelly is a member of Sinn Fein and a Northern Ireland Assembly member. Lord Kilcooney is John Taylor, former Ulster Unionist Party deputy leader. Brian Rowan is a BBC reporter.

ALEX ATTWOOD AND SAMMY WILSON - 
Good Morning, Ulster, Feb. 8,

INTERVIEWER

It's being seen to a degree that there is something for everyone in this report. Is that, Sammy Wilson, the way that you would see it?

SAMMY WILSON

I think it is. I think the only people who must be unhappy this morning are Sinn Fein, who would have loved to have seen the Police Board at each other's throats and as a result, of course, the police further discredited. We have come with an agreement which everyone was able to sign up to. 

As a unionist I'm particularly pleased that the slur that the police could have prevented the Omagh bomb has now been knocked on the head by the Board, and we're also pleased that the police will have primacy in the investigation of the bomb and we will not have the outside team or officer that the Ombudsman had demanded there should be, and I'm also pleased that, especially for future investigations into the police, that the Ombudsman's office will now be reviewed to ensure that the kind of mistakes that were made, factual inaccuracies getting into the public domain and officers not having a chance to reply to those will now be reviewed and we will not have that input to report.

INTERVIEWER

Alex Attwood, Sammy Wilson says he felt that the primacy of the investigation will rest with the Police Service of Northern Ireland, yet this appointment of this senior officer who will report to the Police Board is surely unprecedented.

ALEX ATTWOOD

Yes it is unprecedented, and I hope that with reflection people in the North and most of all those who have suffered so terribly in Omagh will believe that what is now unprecedented creates the strong accountability and management of this investigation, both on the ground and at a board level, to ensure that they have the confidence that those who killed and maimed three years ago last August in Omagh will be caught and convicted. 

And I think that conclusion can be drawn, because we now have an external senior officer working with the police on the ground on an equal status with the police senior investigating officer on the ground to track down in all ways those responsible. And at the same time that person will report to the person appointed by the Policing Board to oversee all matters in relation to this. And I think therefore, both on the ground and at Policing Board level, people can draw the conclusion that every opportunity will now be exhausted in an attempt to track and to prosecute and to put in prison those who should be there.

INTERVIEWER

Sammy Wilson, the Chief Constable could well look at this now and ask himself, who's actually in charge of the Police Service? Is it him, or is, in the case of this investigation, is it this person who is responsible to the Police Board and not to him?

SAMMY WILSON

Well, I think that the document in a number of places makes it very clear who is in charge. The document states that the senior investigating officer, that's the PSNI officer, Brian McArthur, will have operational command, that the person who we've appointed to oversee will have no operational role at all. However, we do have someone who we have appointed now kind of quality assuring, if you wish, and that's a term which actually is used in the document, the investigation. 

So I think that Ronnie Flanagan can feel that he's been endorsed here, that first of all, he wanted to keep this investigation under PSNI control. That has been done, and that is important because we always felt that the imposition of an outside team would have undermined the police in Northern Ireland. 

They have had enough of a beating from the inaccurate report which came forward from the Ombudsman's office, and I think that it was important that we instilled confidence again. On the other hand, I think it is also important that if we were going to say we wanted to keep an eye on this that we had someone who would do that on a regular basis for us.

INTERVIEWER

Alex Attwood, there are a number of other recommendations in this, that there would be a review of terrorist linked murder inquiries, and I'm talking about the murder review procedures and so on. There also seems, in reference to the Ombudsman's office and the Police Service of Northern Ireland, some kind of a recognition that there is a bit of bad blood between the two now, and that that can't be healthy?

ALEX ATTWOOD

I think there's two things. The first is that what the Board decided last night is a model that is more effective and makes greater accountability for the murder in Omagh and all the other related bombing incidents during that year. That in my view is significantly in advance of even what the Police Ombudsman recommended by bringing in an external senior investigating officer. 

This is a model that on the ground at board level makes more sense and creates more accountability for what is happening down there. And yes there have been relationship difficulties between the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the Police Ombudsman's office. 

That's quite clear, everybody knows about it, and indeed everybody has been hurt by it. But what the Board decided last night was that all those who draft reports should circulate those draft reports for factual accuracy to individuals to see and respond to before final publication. 

The Board decided that that was not something particular to the Police Ombudsman because, as we know, both the Police Ombudsman and the Chief Constable issued reports over the last number of weeks, but that all of them, and that's what it says in the drafting, and I should know because I drafted it, that all of them should submit for factual accuracies that which they're going to put in the public domain. 

And all of them should do so because we can't have a situation in the future where any one party to the policing partnership in the North can have any reason to be unduly hurt and annoyed by what one other partner is saying.

FRED COBAIN, UUP - Good Morning, Ulster Feb. 8, 2002 

INTERVIEWER

What do you see as the significance of the Board being able to agree on this extremely sensitive issue?

FRED COBAIN

Well, I mean if you had of been there over the last three days, Seamus, I think it was heartening that all of the political parties and all of the independent members, I mean we're conscious of the responsibility they bore and I think all of them worked very hard to come to, I think, a really unique solution to a very difficult problem.

INTERVIEWER

Now I think it's fair to say that you might have had difficulty with the recommendation that an outside officer be brought in to take charge of the investigation. Can you live with the Merseyside officer having equal status with Brian McArthur and the Board appointed senior officer overseeing the investigation?

FRED COBAIN

Well I think that was essential I think, not only for the Board but, I think, for the wider community when they actually read the details of the document. I mean as James Leslie said last night, it was important that we had continuity in the investigation and I think it was absolutely ludicrous, I mean, to try and remove Brian McArthur and I think it was important that he stays for continuity. 

I think it was important that this additional officer comes in, I mean, to work alongside Brian McArthur and I think the most essential part was that a new Deputy Chief Constable advises the Board on progress on the investigation.

INTERVIEWER

And what about the comment that people might make that we have John Steven's work, we have Colin Port's work going on, now we have two other officers at senior level being brought in from outside and they might wonder what that says about the performance of the police here?

FRED COBAIN

Seamus, I have to say this, I as an individual have total confidence in the police. They're working under extremely difficult circumstances and I think the Board, and you will see this I think as the Board progresses, that we will become less and less politicized and more and more concerned with delivering a relevant policing service and I know that, I mean, over the next number of months parties will want to restate their position. 

But I think that will slowly go away and we will get into proper policing and the Board will play a proper role. And I think as far as the police is concerned in Northern Ireland, I think over the last 30 years I mean they've faced a very, very difficult task and these inquiries that are going on, I mean, are I think to reinstill in the community confidence in the police.

INTERVIEWER

You say you have confidence in the police. Do you have confidence in the Police Ombudsman?

FRED COBAIN

Well, I mean, I have to say this Seamus, that, I mean, these are all new relationships, including the relationship with the Police Ombudsman. And I think everyone needs to get, I mean, round it and the Police Ombudsman needs to come round it and there isn't any issues that are black and white and I think that the report says that. 

That we need to have working relationships between professional people and I have to say this, that if the Chief Constable and the Police Ombudsman had've had a proper professional relationship all of this, not all of it, a large amount of this, the difficulties we are in now, could have been overcome.

INTERVIEWER

Can you say on behalf of your colleagues on the Policing Board in the Ulster Unionist Party that you now have confidence in the Police Ombudsman?

FRED COBAIN

Of course I have. Now, I mean, I have confidence in the Police Ombudsman's office and I think it is essential for the community and for the police that we have a Police Ombudsman.

INTERVIEWER

And do you speak for your colleagues in the party when you say you've confidence in her?

FRED COBAIN

I mean, I mean I can't speak for every single person in the Ulster Unionist Party, Seamus, I mean I am on a Policing Board, I mean I am giving my view to this and I think it is essential, as I said, that we have a Police Ombudsman and I think that is protection, not only for the community but more importantly for the police.

You rightly pointed to all of these inquiries that are going on and I think with a proper relationship between the police and the Police Ombudsman, I mean I think the community will have confidence in the police.

INTERVIEWER

How do you think this review mechanism for the work of the Ombudsman that the Board is proposing will work. What's that mechanism to be and how will it be put in place?

FRED COBAIN

Well, I mean I think it's a matter for the Secretary of State, as far as the Police Ombudsman's concerned.

INTERVIEWER

So he will decide those?

FRED COBAIN

Well I mean it's not a matter for us. I mean we are saying that we need, we think there should be a review but it's not a matter for us to tell the Secretary of State how that should proceed.

INTERVIEWER

And what's your message to the relatives this morning?

FRED COBAIN

Well I mean I think in all of this, I mean, it is, as I keep saying, in the forefront of our mind must be the victims and the relatives and I hope, I hope that they, when they read all of this, that they will see that the Board has taken their concerns on board.

GERRY KELLY, SINN FEIN - 
Good Morning, Ulster Feb. 8, 2002 

INTERVIEWER

Well the Police Board's working, its members would argue?

GERRY KELLY

I've just listened to three of the members and they gave three interpretations of it. However, I mean what this was about was no matter how much the investigation was conducted and more importantly the role of the Special Branch, the Police Ombudsman report was very critical of the role of the Special Branch, not just during the Omagh bombing but since. 

And, I mean, these are recommendations and we will study them. But in terms of the role of Special Branch it goes way beyond the Omagh investigation I have to say. And it is the core of creating a new policing service and I think that what we are looking at here. You know the Policing Board isn't the referee and I think it has failed, from what we are listening to this morning, to address the role of the Special Branch.

INTERVIEWER

Well has it? There's a large section in the Police Board's report on this very issued. The Policing Board fully accepts there's a need for a Special Branch to enable the police to have a capability to counter terrorist threats. But there are issues around the structures and procedures, for the management and dissemination of intelligence between the Branch and other parts of the service and that is going to be reviewed. Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary is going to have precisely that job. This is, they would argue on the Board, the Ombudsman's recommendation on this matter being implemented?

GERRY KELLY

Well we will see what that does. The difficulty is that the Special Branch before and more importantly after this and during the investigation of the Ombudsman by the Ombudsman's team refused to give information not only to other parts of the force involved but indeed to the Ombudsman's office. People will be wanting to know is the Policing Board going to implement this. 

I mean I listened to Sammy Wilson and what it was was an attack on the Ombudsman, it was saying that she overstepped herself, that she doesn't have that power and I think the Policing Board is there to make the, I mean its precise job is to make the police to account and I will read the report. We will have a further look at the points made but just on listening to what we have at this moment I don't think that has been done.

INTERVIEWER

Well wouldn't your reservations and wouldn't your criticisms carry much greater weight if you were asking people, if you were urging people, including republicans who may have information, anybody who has information about the Omagh bombing, to give that to the Police Service of Northern Ireland and/or the Garda Siochana?

GERRY KELLY

Well, all you're being is clever now. But let's return to it.

INTERVIEWER

It's a question many will want to know.

GERRY KELLY

That's fair enough and I will answer it. I am saying quite clearly if we are arguing and I am arguing that this is a force within a force and that it is a corrupt force then it is foolish to ask people this. This organization, this possessed part of the organization in the Special Branch has been involved in collusion over many, many years. Sure there is documented evidence of deaths which have occurred from intelligence which they had, so I will not ask people to do that because this is a force which has its own power which goes beyond all accountability mechanisms and that needs to be changed.

BRIAN ROWAN, BBC - Good Morning, Ulster Feb. 8, 2002

INTERVIEWER

In a way there was a reference to the late night discussion. This was almost a sort of rerun in a reduced version of the Good Friday Agreement negotiations?

BRIAN ROWAN

I agree entirely with you and we've become used to deal making of a type which allows people to put their arms around something, embrace it and say, well we got what we wanted. And we've heard the different political interpretations of this agreement this morning, but we all know they all had to give something to get a bit of what they wanted and I think that's what made this Policing Board deal possible. 

There's something for everyone in it and I think what prevented people on the Board from retreating into their political camps and taking sides was the concerns that the relatives had and I think across the board it was recognized that those concerns in relation to the investigation had to be addressed.

INTERVIEWER

And will the Ombudsman's recommendations, all six of them, be implemented?

BRIAN ROWAN

Well, in one way or another, you know, not everyone gets everything that they were looking for and if we could just break this down a bit, we've had all of this arguing over Omagh, the Punch and Judy involving the Chief Constable and the Ombudsman. But there on Page 1 of last night's Board statement the Chairman, Professor Desmond Rea, identifies something that everyone is agreed on. 

He said, as a result of the discussions between the Board, the Police Ombudsman and the Chief Constable, it was recognized by all parties that on the basis of the information available the Omagh bombing could not have been prevented. Now the Chief Constable will welcome that as a very important statement because of the focus there has been on information available to the police before the bomb, information provided by an agent and an anonymous caller. 

And there had been criticism of how that information had been assessed, but now we have this very clear statement covering the Board, the Ombudsman and the Chief Constable, all saying the bombing could not have been prevented.

INTERVIEWER

But the Ombudsman recommended, Number 1, an investigation team led by a senior investigation officer independent of the Police Service of Northern Ireland should be asked to conduct the Omagh bomb investigation.

BRIAN ROWAN

Yes, and the Chief Constable had insisted that his Det. Supt., Brian McArthur, would remain as senior investigating officer and the Chief Constable has operational responsibility. Now Brian McArthur remains as senior investigating officer but he'll have another detective from Merseyside sitting alongside him. 

The Chief Constable had said that officer would be an adviser, the Board has said he will be of equal status to the senior investigating officer. So here the Chief Constable has had to give something and the Board has gone further, it will appoint another senior officer of Deputy Chief Constable or Assistant Chief Constable rank to oversee the investigation and to report to the Board and a number of tasks have been identified for that officer. 

I'll just take you though some of them Seamus. It says that that officer will critically examine the resource and skill levels needed to satisfactorily conclude the investigation. That officer will undertake a quality assurance role with particular reference to the content of the Omagh bomb review report, that was a review of the Omagh investigation carried out by the RUC itself. 

The officer will also monitor progress in the investigation, including the implementation of the Omagh bomb review report. Will identify any obstacles standing in the way of progress, offer strategic guidance to the Board in relation to its responsibilities and report to the Board at regular intervals. Now that strikes me as meaning this officer will have teeth and sharp teeth too Seamus.

INTERVIEWER

Will the Chief Constable accept what the Board is saying?

BRIAN ROWAN

Well, what he had said when he called in the Merseyside officer as an adviser was that he was prepared to discuss precise terms of reference with the Board in relation to that officer. As I said earlier he wanted that officer to be an adviser, the Board says that officer should be of equal status. I would be surprised if the Chief Constable didn't accept that because what he has insisted all along was that Brian McArthur would remain as senior investigating officer and he has got that.

INTERVIEWER

Will the Ombudsman be happy with what the Board has concluded?

BRIAN ROWAN
Seamus, this week there had been a bit of political tough talking from Lord Kilclooney, better known to us as John Taylor, twice going into Board meetings, he suggested that the Ombudsman should resign. Now there's nothing like that in last night's Board statement, but in seven sentences or so the Board has this to say.

It says the Policing Board believes that arising from the Police Ombudsman's report and the response of the Chief Constable, there are a number of issues which require independent review and consideration. These issues, and I'm still quoting from the Board's statement here, these issues center around the relationships and protocols between all of the parties involved in the new policing arrangements. 

It is clear that the handling of certain aspects has caused hurt to others. The statement goes on, the Board considers that lessons can be learned for the handling of such issues in the future and the Board will work to ensure these are addressed. Accordingly the Board will discuss with all parties, including Government, how to develop best working relationships and all measures and procedures so to do. 

And the last two sentences, they say these include arrangements for appropriate review of draft reports as to factual accuracy and for individuals to see and respond to content as necessary before circulation of the final report. 

And you'll remember Seamus, after the Ombudsman issued her draft report the Chief Constable was saying that he hadn't been given appropriate time to respond and to deal with what he described as 'factual inaccuracies' and the Board also says that it considers that as with current policing arrangements there should be a review mechanism for the work of the Police Ombudsman. Now I'm told last night this was the last item agreed.

I was saying around tea time last night that Board sources were telling me they were very close to agreement but one key issue still remained to be resolved. This issue was resolved at about 7.40 last night. I saw Alex Attwood come out of the building, there were a few unionists outside, they went back in at that stage and it was at that point that the words were agreed on this bit relating to the Ombudsman.

INTERVIEWER

And it's understood that this mechanism will actually be a part of the Criminal Justice Bill that's going through Parliament at the present time, that's what's proposed?

BRIAN ROWAN

That's my understanding, and I heard one of the politicians this morning, I think it was Fred Cobain, saying that the detail on this is going to have to be sorted out with the Secretary of State. But my understanding is what you have just said, that's how it will happen and my understanding also is that the Ombudsman is quite relaxed about all of this.

INTERVIEWER

Now to go back to the investigation and how it's proposed it now be conducted. There will be those who will be very concerned that what we will have now is effectively an investigation by committee and they'll wonder how all these people who are now involved in this Omagh investigation will relate to each other?

BRIAN ROWAN

I'm sure that will be a concern Seamus, and one of the things that the Chief Constable was absolutely adamant about was that there is no one with a more detailed knowledge than Brian McArthur in relation to this investigation. He sees Brian McArthur as an outstanding detective and he thought that to replace him would be to the detriment of this investigation. 

So Brian McArthur remains in operational charge of the investigation and in order to give confidence to those who have concerns at this stage the Merseyside officer will act alongside him and this new Deputy Chief Constable or Assistant Chief Constable who will be brought in will report directly to the Board but will have no operational responsibility.

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN - Talkback Feb. 8, 2002

INTERVIEWER

One of the Omagh relatives regarded the outcome of this as confusion, wondering who is really in charge now. I put this to the Chief Constable, Sir Ronnie Flanagan.

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well, I think there's no doubt who's in charge, and I hope when relatives read in detail what the Police Board have produced, that they will be reassured. The PSNI remains unequivocally in charge of this investigation, but the Police Board, through Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary, will be appointing a Chief Officer to keep them satisfied in a way that this person will continuously quality assure the investigation and fulfill the other terms of reference that the Board have led down, so that the Board is satisfied. 

And hopefully through the Board the relatives, and it's the relatives that everybody is particularly concerned about, are also reassured that this investigation is as effective as it is humanly possible to be.

INTERVIEWER

But you will have to accept, will you not, that the Merseyside officer who will be appointed will be of equal status to your own investigating officer, Mr. McArthur.

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

I have no difficulty with that whatsoever, because I realize, not only has the investigation to be as effective as humanly possible, but people must be reassured that this is so. So I have no difficulty whatsoever with the proposed terms of reference for that Merseyside officer, and neither will Mr. McArthur as well.

INTERVIEWER

But you did have difficulty before this, didn't you? Did you not say that you wanted your man to remain in, and your team, in sole charge of the operation?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

No, I never said in sole charge. I wanted them to remain in complete operational command, and the only reason I wanted that is that that is what will bring about the best chance of success, and that's exactly what has happened. That's exactly what the Board have recognized.

INTERVIEWER

So we could say that this is a partnership then between the Merseyside officer and Mr. McArthur in leading this investigation?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

I suppose that's not a bad way of putting it. They will work in the closest co-operation and in the closest partnership, and that external dimension that the Merseyside officer will bring, I hope will be an added reassurance to those who need reassurance.

INTERVIEWER

So you accept this proposition, you have no quarrel with it?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

I've none whatsoever.

INTERVIEWER

And as to the other officer which you have already mentioned in a sort of a supervising role, what is the extent of his authority?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well he does not have operational command whatsoever, and the Board made that clear. What the Board wants to do is satisfy itself on a continuous basis, so they have asked Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary to identify for them a chief officer who will take on that role. 

And in that sense I have no difficulty whatsoever and that officer will get full co-operation from the Police Service of Northern Ireland so as to give the Board the reassurance that they need. It's an absolute responsibility of theirs to keep themselves reassured and through them to keep the public at large similarly reassured.

INTERVIEWER

There was much focus on the role of the Special Branch in this affair. You go along with the proposal, the recommendation from the Board that there is a need for a review of the role of the Special Branch?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well the Board recognizes that already a major reorganization is underway, and I'm pleased that the Board recognizes that. So again, because it's Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary, I have constitutionally not the slightest difficulty with that. And I'm certain that any in detailed examination of what has been done will realize that there is radical change already underway and already planned by us. 

And of course the Oversight Commissioner will be looking at that as well, and it's right that there should be all these external means of checks and balances. The Board has a very important role to play, the Oversight Commissioner has an important role to play, and so has Her Majesty's Inspector of Constabulary.

INTERVIEWER

And that would include more care in the matter of documents or books, and we know about those in the Omagh inquiry, those that went missing.

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well there's been much misrepresentation in those regards and it's certainly, I wouldn't imagine, going to concentrate on details like that. But certainly we acknowledged in our response that mistakes had been made. Those mistakes have already, we hope have been put right by changes in administrative practices. 

I think this will be rather more a strategic examination of how intelligence is gathered, how it is assessed, and how it is properly used to focus all sorts of investigations.

INTERVIEWER

What about, the Board feel that this, and I'm thinking now of the informant Fulton whose name has cropped up on many, many occasions in the course of these inquiries, his role in it and the fact that the Board feel that the bomb itself could not have been prevented?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well of course that was always the position of the RUC. It has always been the position of the PSNI, and I'm very pleased indeed that the Board has come to the unequivocal conclusion that we have always held ourselves.

INTERVIEWER

So interesting this morning, this is a general question I want to put to you, the perceptions within the community. I read the News Letter this morning, it says 'Police Board deals O'Loan double blow', and I go to the Irish News and I find 'the Board ordered the implementation of measures centering on Mrs. O'Loan's recommendations, etc, etc'. It depends how you look at this, doesn't it?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well David you more than anyone I think must know, on your daily programs, that if we're ever thus in Northern Ireland that people take up their own positions. I am very anxious that this should not be seen the way the media have portrayed it, as some sort of battle or struggle between the Chief Constable and the Ombudsman. 
What is of crucial importance is that there are mechanisms for accountability so that the relationship between the Ombudsman's Office and the Chief Constable and the Police Service of Northern Ireland are good, effective relationships, that the Ombudsman's office is conducted in a way that people have the opportunity to scrutinize draft reports, and comment upon them properly and appropriately before they are circulated in the public domain.

INTERVIEWER

This is one thing you thought was a weakness?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well, I very much welcome the Board's recommendation to the Secretary of State that there should be a review of this, because it is of crucial importance to us and we have always very firmly supported the concept of an Ombudsman's office with an independent investigative capability. But that office must conduct its business to the very highest judicial standards.

INTERVIEWER

So what now on a personal and professional basis, because they do overlap, between yourself and Nuala O'Loan?

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

I think in relation to this instant matter, what now is that we must get full public support from the community, from all public representatives, both north and south of the border, because perhaps more than 50% of this investigation resides in the Republic of Ireland. So we need both north and south full public co-operation to bring about the very best chance of success in this matter, to bring to justice those who carried out such a terrible crime against so many innocent victims on the 15th of August, 1998.

INTERVIEWER

It didn't answer my question about your relationship with Nuala O'Loan.

SIR RONNIE FLANAGAN

Well I have known Nuala O'Loan for a long time and, while the media have tried to portray this as some sort of personal struggle, it has never been that and it never will be that. We're both professional people. There are issues that this matter has thrown up. 

The Police Board have indicated a way ahead, the Government must respond to what the Police Board has recommended, but as professional individuals there is no doubt that we can ring-fence this issue, see that it's addressed and in the meantime get on as we have been getting on with our professional relationship in all other matters.
 

LORD KILCLOONEY - Talkback Feb. 8, 2002

INTERVIEWER

What do you feel now about this, do you still feel that Nuala O'Loan must go?

LORD KILCLOONEY

Well, I was interested in your interview there and the fact that you referred to the News Letter and the Irish News having two different types of reports. Sadly, the BBC followed the Irish News line last night and early this morning and didn't mention this important section of the report on the Ombudsman which rather surprised me.

INTERVIEWER

Yes well, okay.

LORD KILCLOONEY

You are now beginning to discuss it but you were only discussing the police and Omagh and things like that and you ignored the total chapter on the Ombudsman or the fact that we want, unanimously we decided we wanted an inquiry on the operation of her office and that we were going to ask the Secretary of State how this could be carried out.

INTERVIEWER

Well, do you still think Nuala O'Loan must go?

LORD KILCLOONEY

We took these things in stages. Obviously there's been a failure on the part of the Ombudsman's office. The Board has unanimously recognized that, they want to ensure that in future the mistakes that have taken place will not occur again, that there will be no further reports which will be considered to have factual inaccuracies.

Above all that there will be natural justice involved, that if the Ombudsman's going to issue a report condemning individuals or an organization that the people to be condemned are first given the sight of the report so that they have the chance to respond. 

That's natural justice, it did not apply in this case and we are going to ensure that it happens in future.

INTERVIEWER

So do you feel Nuala O'Loan should go?

LORD KILCLOONEY

It may be that eventually she will have to go. I'm going to table a question today in Westminster to the Government as to how they're going to respond to this unanimous decision of the Board, DUP, Ulster Unionists, SDLP and independents, saying there has to be a review of the Ombudsman's office.

INTERVIEWER

Did you at the meeting now, did you eyeball to eyeball Nuala O'Loan and say, you should go?

LORD KILCLOONEY

No, I didn't say that at the meeting. I certainly eyeballed her and asked her some rather pertinent questions. For example, why did she not agree to the injunction which the Chief Constable had suggested. Why did she not give the Chief Constable and the PSNI an opportunity to respond to her report before she went public with it. 

I wasn't very pleased with the answers, they were quite inadequate and I think that must have been the feeling of the other members of the Board and that's why they have unanimously brought into the public arena the need for a review of the Ombudsman's office.

INTERVIEWER

But they have also brought in what Ronnie Flanagan accepted was a partnership, ie, that a senior officer from Merseyside would work with equal status in the continuing investigation into the Omagh bombing. Are you happy with that?

LORD KILCLOONEY

Sorry, not into the investigation. You must be careful with the words and not confuse people and I notice you started your introduction to this program by saying that one of the families in Omagh were a bit confused and no-one doesn't blame them to be confused if we present it in this way. 

The subject of the investigation will be solely under the direction of a PSNI officer. That is the case. There will of course be an outside officer coming in to gauge what is being done and to see how it can be tied in with other terrorist incidents in other parts of Northern Ireland.

INTERVIEWER

Well, the Chief Constable seems to think it's a partnership.

LORD KILCLOONEY

I notice he accepted the word partnership but he then went out of his way to emphasize, and he was quite right, that it is the PSNI officer who will have sole charge of the investigation of the Omagh murders.

INTERVIEWER

May I read the sentence from the Policing Board's report? Both the PSNI senior investigating officer and the external senior officer will have equal status, ie, neither one subordinate to the other.

LORD KILCLOONEY

Absolutely, but you have only read part of it. There's another part which makes it clear that the PSNI officer will have sole charge of the investigation.

INTERVIEWER

Well where does it say that specifically now?

LORD KILCLOONEY

Well I haven't got the page in front of me but

INTERVIEWER

It says, it says.

LORD KILCLOONEY

.operation under the control of the PSNI officer, that there's no doubt.

INTERVIEWER

Yes, I'm just going to get to the point now so we can clarify this. It says, a PSNI senior investigating officer will have operational command of the investigation. 

LORD KILCLOONEY

That's right. 

INTERVIEWER

Then it goes on to say that the external officer will have equal status, neither one subordinate to the other.

LORD KILCLOONEY

Yes, but he will not have any equal status in the actual operational command of the investigation. That's important, that is very, very, important because the Board wanted to record its confidence in the PSNI being in operational command.

INTERVIEWER

Yes, I note a colleague of yours, Fred Cobain, when he was interviewed about this, it may well have been last night or early this morning, that he seemed to feel that this was generally a good outcome and you probably wouldn't disagree with that. But he felt that in the circumstances he could continue to support the Ombudsman, Nuala O'Loan?

LORD KILCLOONEY

The unanimous decision of the Board is that we are unhappy with the way in which the Ombudsman's office dealt with this matter. We felt that they denied natural justice and there were other aspects of the report which we thought were not accurate and that was why we have unanimously, including Fred Cobain, unanimously asked the Government to carry out a review of the Ombudsman's office.

INTERVIEWER

So you would more, finally, you would go along with the News Letter comment that this is a double blow for Nuala O'Loan?

LORD KILCLOONEY

I think it is a major blow for the present Ombudsman and it will be pursued further. We will now proceed in Parliament, is to reconsider the role of the Ombudsman's office and you must remember that Mr. Maurice Hayes, no friend of the Ulster Unionist Party, in a Dublin newspaper also queried the role of the Ombudsman and he was the one who produced the report on how there could be created in Northern Ireland a Police Ombudsman's office.

For more information on the Policing Board discussion, the following publications discussed the issue in greater detail on Feb. 8.

Both local Belfast papers lead with differing reports on the Policing Board. The Irish News (P1) reports that the Policing Board appeared to move towards implementing the Ombudsman's recommendations on the Omagh bomb inquiry by imposing a series of measures to restore confidence in the investigation. 

Among these recommendations were, the appointment of an Assistant Chief Constable to 'quality assure' the investigation; the Merseyside officer appointed by Sir Ronnie Flanagan must have equal status as the current officer in charge and the Board also agreed to seek a 'review mechanism' for the work of the Police Ombudsman.

The News Letter (P1) reports that the Police Ombudsman's office was dealt a double blow by the Policing Board following a marathon review of her report into the police investigation of the Omagh bombing outrage. The paper says that the Board has unanimously rejected her principle recommendation to draft a senior officer to take over the police investigation.

The Irish Times (P8) reports that the Policing Board is to call in a senior police officer from Britain to oversee the Omagh bomb investigation. Det. Supt. Brian McArthur remains as senior investigating officer with operational responsibility. See also Irish Independent (P7), Guardian (P10), Times (P8), Financial Times (P2), Mirror (P2).